We Have Met the Enemy - And They is Us?

[mgailp]

They need someone to take them and say, "So, you're not quite (insert name of corps here) material. But you've got promise. How about you take a spot in the feeder corps, you'll get a chance to still do the warm-ups and marching basics with the "A" corps, but you'll go do shows with the development corps. Show us the effort and imporvement, and you've as good as in the "A" corps next summer."

Here's part of where the feeder corps system fell apart. Many feder members that marched the years I did were NOT chosen to march their parent corps when they "aged out" of the feeder corps' cut off. There needs to be a preference system for a feeder or associate corps. I'm not saying guarentee, but if you have 2 kids at almost the same level but one was in the feeder, pick the feeder member.

[dmfootworks]

I'm not saying that all D 2/3 corps are just "minor league" or "just for skills development so that they can be sent up to a D1", but some of them need to be if we are to keep these "all or nothing" kids in the activity. They need someone to take them and say, "So, you're not quite (insert name of corps here) material. But you've got promise. How about you take a spot in the feeder corps, you'll get a chance to still do the warm-ups and marching basics with the "A" corps, but you'll go do shows with the development corps. Show us the effort and imporvement, and you've as good as in the "A" corps next summer."

I wholeheartily concur, but we don't live in that kind of society. I believe the present state of drumcorps reflects the state of our society today. Why should Division I corps make it their concern to increase the number of marching members across the activity? They are their own enterprise and if they can retain all of the marching members they require (and then quite some) through the audition process, then why would they want to make an unneeded, potentially costly investment to increase the size of their operation?

We live in an era in which organizations strictly watch their bottom line. There are few tears for cutting people from the ranks and seemingly little regard of how the larger community is impacted. In order for there to be community-based drum corps, drum corps must emanate from the community. In most communities there is not a large enough supply of talent on hand to sustain such an operation. If we want back to the bottom-up approach of taking raw members and trainig them from the start, then there might be a chance. But then again, the requirements to do DCI-style shows are so high now that corps may be able to accept only those kids that have substantive training already.

For a smaller corps to simply accept auditionees from all parts of the country through a sort of default process means that the corps will never truly be community-based. If that's the case then it's more difficult for the corps to be locally sponsored. And with fewer regional competitors and competitions, the yardstick then looks extremey daunting and so who would want to take charge of such responsibility?

So the "excess" potential mraching talent is screwed from both sides. The top tier has no interest to take an interest in them, and we have little more than a top tier now in the first place, I'm so very sorry to say. If the auditionees -- those being cut -- could return to their own local area and march with the local corps, that would be one thing. But if there is no local corps and they are faced with trekking to another part of the country to march with a corps that may be not much more than fledgling, I can't say that I can necessarily blame them for exploring other ways of spending their summer.

Sad.

[Jeff Ream]

That's a very good point. It all depends on what they see as their role. Probably some of them are content to give kids a good time performing and learning in the small-corps environment, whereas others want to achieve Div I status. That is completely up to the corps and what they feel their mission is, not what DCI or another party feels it is.

and that's fine. But there has to be balance, and right now, there is no balance. Yes, in many ways DCi treats them like the red headed step child. but D2/3 allows themselves to be treated that way too.

a perfect example...this finals week schedule is a joke.

[OMello1]

You mean, like "back in the day" when it seems that every big corps had a smaller, younger feeder corps behind them? That's what the activity needs again. A feeder corps, or an affiliate corps (as you suggested) to immediately grab these kids who don't make the cut and just walk away so they can be developed and make the cut next year.

I'm not saying that all D 2/3 corps are just "minor league" or "just for skills development so that they can be sent up to a D1", but some of them need to be if we are to keep these "all or nothing" kids in the activity. They need someone to take them and say, "So, you're not quite (insert name of corps here) material. But you've got promise. How about you take a spot in the feeder corps, you'll get a chance to still do the warm-ups and marching basics with the "A" corps, but you'll go do shows with the development corps. Show us the effort and imporvement, and you've as good as in the "A" corps next summer."

The kid stays with the corps s/he wants, the corps has a "minor league" talent pool they can pull from, and the activity gains another member that would have just gone home after being cut.

No, Feeder corps are not what I'm suggesting. Many corps have tried this through the years, and with the exception of the California corps (and Colts...), everyone else, for some reason or another, needed to fold their feeder corps. I do not think in most situations feeder corps are viable these days (they are a big draw on limited resources...the same reason very few corps these days have winter guards) and frankly they wouldn't do what I'm saying needs to be done. We don't need feeder corps to aid in developing talent for the big D1's. The talent comes to them ready to go (in many cases).

We need to get the less talented kids (the ones D1 corps cut) into other corps...corps that are a better match for their skills and where they will receive the training they need. Will those kids stay in the D2/3 corps throughout their marching career? Some will, some wont. I don't want make anyone angry by this, but would anyone truthfully disagree with a parallel between D1-D2/3 & Major and Minor leagues? I mean...if the shoe fits...

And that is not a dig on D2/3...D2/3 is *vital* to the survival and growth of not only D1, but of the Junior corps acitivty as a whole. This is where the younger and less talented kids should be marching to increase their skills and experience. For what though? Some will choose to stay with the D2/3 corps until they age out...if it is an organization that is attractive and that the members will CARE about. Maybe the corps will choose to stay D2 or D3 and not move into bigger divisions...maybe they want to move into D1 and the kid wants to be along for that exciting ride. Or maybe the student will use their time in D2/3 to build the skills neccessary to audition and make a top D1 corps. In any case, the D2/3 corps and the experience they provide, whether is considered "minor league" or not will serve as the basis for the entire future of not only the corps itself, but their members and the future of the activity.

So...yeah...I do view D2/3 as the minor leagues of drum corps...but the majors wouldn't exist without the minors...And anyone who has ever seen a minor league baseball game knows the passion and excitement can be just as great as a major league team.

M

[OMello1]

I wholeheartily concur, but we don't live in that kind of society. I believe the present state of drumcorps reflects the state of our society today. Why should Division I corps make it their concern to increase the number of marching members across the activity? They are their own enterprise and if they can retain all of the marching members they require (and then quite some) through the audition process, then why would they want to make an unneeded, potentially costly investment to increase the size of their operation?

So the "excess" potential mraching talent is screwed from both sides. The top tier has no interest to take an interest in them, and we have little more than a top tier now in the first place, I'm so very sorry to say. If the auditionees -- those being cut -- could return to their own local area and march with the local corps, that would be one thing.

I agree with much of what you said (I cut most of what I agree with from the quote above). But I think you are wrong about D1 corps not taking an interest in the kids they cut. In the case of the directors of D1 corps...these people serve on the board of DCI and are wholeheartedly "people of drum corps". They care about more than just their own corps and getting the 135 uber-talented kids into their corps and then "screw everyone else". That's the mentality I think you are suggesting (please correct me if I'm wrong). I also think the staff of the D1 corps do understand that 2 or 3 years from now, that scrawny 17 year old who doesn't know their butt from a hole in the ground could be their new star soloist with some time and training.

Most importantly, I think people are interested in doing what's right for the Greater (drum corps) Good, than doing only what is best for their organization. Both causes need to be supported, or neither will exist in 20 years.

Imagine the following scenario:

A D2/3 corps director is facing membership shortfalls...they just can't fill out their ranks with kids and are facing folding due to lack of interest (of course, the corps needs to figure out why there is a lack of interest and take steps to correct that problem, but that is another thread...). That D2/3 director approaches the director of a top-6 corps...one that regularly reports having 400, 500 or 600 kids at their audition camps, and asks if there is a way to offer the kids who do not meet the needs of the D1 corps a chance to audition/march in the D2/3 corps. Do you honestly think the D1 director is not going to try and help the D2/3 corps?

Man...if I were in that situation I would BEND OVER BACKWARDS to help get kids into the D2/3 corps. And I don't think I am alone...

M

[WWonka]

Part of the problem with getting kids into Div II and III for the region I live in(SW, South Central) is there is a big DC void in the center of the country. Revolution and Trinity are trying to get cranked up in Tx but other than that it's sparse.

The model of a Div II and III tour mandates you stay in town in most of June and sometimes a chunk of July. That's easy to do if you are within a reasonable driving distance of the corps. Otherwise you have to try to find housing for a kid with people they don't know or turn a HS kid loose in an Apt. It gets expensive for a college kid too. And feed your self while in town. The costs add up to about as much as a Div I if you can't stay at home.

When Black Gold(OK), Lone Star(TX), Delta Brigade(AR), Railmen(NE), Skyriders(KS then TX) and others(LA had one) were around you had options but they have all come and gone. So now you are back to all the lower Div corps on the coasts or upper MW.

My daughter auditioned for Memphis Sound. She said that was who she really liked in Div II and I liked what they are doing. They have arranged for everyone to stay in the dorms at a local College for housing until they go on tour and they are doing essentially Div I tour # of shows wise.

It sucks driving 8 hours each way for camps but there is just not much choice and I like the model they are using.

[audiodb]

Why should Division I corps make it their concern to increase the number of marching members across the activity?

Because that's their business.

They are their own enterprise and if they can retain all of the marching members they require (and then quite some) through the audition process, then why would they want to make an unneeded, potentially costly investment to increase the size of their operation?

For the same reason they made the costly investment to create their operation in the first place. This is a youth activity. Why not serve more youth? Frankly, BD, SCV and Colts, with their multiple youth programs, demonstrate a genuine interest in providing fun, educational activities for kids at several levels within the framework of the drum corps activity. I think that makes perfect sense for the missions of those organizations, and hope to see more corps develop in this manner in the near future.

[dmfootworks]

I agree with much of what you said (I cut most of what I agree with from the quote above). But I think you are wrong about D1 corps not taking an interest in the kids they cut. In the case of the directors of D1 corps...these people serve on the board of DCI and are wholeheartedly "people of drum corps". They care about more than just their own corps and getting the 135 uber-talented kids into their corps and then "screw everyone else". That's the mentality I think you are suggesting (please correct me if I'm wrong). I also think the staff of the D1 corps do understand that 2 or 3 years from now, that scrawny 17 year old who doesn't know their butt from a hole in the ground could be their new star soloist with some time and training.

I would hope that you're right. I didn't mean to state it in such a way to make staff and directors appear cold. What I was referring to more specifically was the issue of Division I corps developing and maintaining feeder corps (any care to suggest this would be a feasible application of corps resources?), and I sought to juxtapose this against the dearth of community-based corps to illustrate a virtual no-man's land.

[dmfootworks]

Because that's their business.

For the same reason they made the costly investment to create their operation in the first place. This is a youth activity. Why not serve more youth? Frankly, BD, SCV and Colts, with their multiple youth programs, demonstrate a genuine interest in providing fun, educational activities for kids at several levels within the framework of the drum corps activity. I think that makes perfect sense for the missions of those organizations, and hope to see more corps develop in this manner in the near future.

The investment for most of these corps was done in a completely different era, wherein, as Don Warren once said, it "was kids off the street." I like to think that most everyone cares, and I agree that it makes "perfect sense" -- but only insofar that it is economically feasible. It is important to remember that many Division I corps once had feeder corps. The reasons for their demise are obvious. Hopefully increased demand among existing and up and coming talent to be involved in drum corps (is it the case that band presently suffices for many of them?) will allow the activity to revisit this system. Believe me, I'm all for it.

[OMello1]

The investment for most of these corps was done in a completely different era, wherein, as Don Warren once said, it "was kids off the street." I like to think that most everyone cares, and I agree that it makes "perfect sense" -- but only insofar that it is economically feasible. It is important to remember that many Division I corps once had feeder corps. The reasons for their demise are obvious. Hopefully increased demand among existing and up and coming talent to be involved in drum corps (is it the case that band presently suffices for many of them?) will allow the activity to revisit this system. Believe me, I'm all for it.

I think you are right about the economically feasible part. I think most corps directors would (or should) jump at the chance to help a struggling corps become stronger, as long as it doesn't become a burden on the larger corps (or at least not too big of one...).

I salute organizations like Blue Devils, SCV, Colts and The Academy who find it within their abilities to support several programs. I think the success of The Academy could serve as a model for many more similar efforts. But such success will not be possible in every area and in every situation. For some groups, it is all they can do to just get 1 corps on the field each year, and provide a great experience. I think groups who support only their touring corps are choosing to focus their resources on making the experience for the members the absolute best, rather than spread the resources out over several programs...

M