Binghamton NY scores

[Jeff Ream]

One more thing.....I like all drum corps......just some more than others. I think Bush and Reading are very good.

And I don't march with The CorpsVets, so any condescending, sarcastic, back handed comments about The CorpsVets having cute or nice corps is totally lost by making that comment to me :)

Eric Watters

Atlanta, Ga.

at least they didnt call you nice and cute :P

[Jeff Ream]

Here's where I'm coming from:

I don't want to "name drop," because "name dropping" is bad, and one should never, ever "name drop." (Michael Cesario told me that personally)...

But I remember when Mr. Petrone, Mr. Bruni, and Mr. Costello tried to make changes that encouraged corps to do entertaining, crowd oriented shows, AND to be good early for the show sponsors. To be fair, the current Bucs qualify as entertaining compared to back then.

Back then, the Bushwackers were doing stuff that would be - literally - 7 points behind Empire in July, and then by September, they were outstanding (for real, much love). BUT crowds and show sponsors had to survive through watching Bush while they got it together.

The formula developed by Mr. Petrone, Mr. Bruni, and Mr. Costello led to crowd-oriented corps winning (Empire, Cabs, Brigs, --- even Westshore was getting "funky").

For the Bucs to be entertaining, they have to be "impressive." Like, WOW! That's their hook.

On THAT night (7/1/06) Empire should have beaten them by 3 points. They didn't. The crowd went "Huh?" and went home. Now Empire's 2 points behind and the spread's growing. The current system is set up for Empire to have NO chance of catching them.

Empire doesn't lack "derived achievement" because they can't handle playing "Bolero," it's because their show puts the crowd first, without regard to the "Rich Templin - ocracy" that NOW runs DCA.

AND by the way - I'm not associated with anyone. Don't hold my comments against Empire. I'm just a fan who wants see Rochester DCA come off with flying colors. We have the stadium, we have the fans... just don't send them home saying "Huh?" too many years in a row.

Tom Allen

Section 308 on the isle

funny,

Rich wrote a show 3 years ago that crowds loved that just happened to win. odd ythat you blame him for the judging since the corps vote on it, just like we complain about with DCI. oops. kills that point.

maybe your concern here is to the corps that actually vote on the rules.

many people find Bucs entertaining. i dont find their show to be a DCi carbon copy...i can understand their show. they arent loaded up with all kinds of hidden deep meaning. in fact, i think i like this years better than last years.

and in regards to Bush back then, many people did enjoy them most years, as well as this year. Remember not every fan likes the same thing. face it...you say Shore had an entertaining show...funny, that crowd wasnt very into us in your hometown

[topsops]

face it...you say Shore had an entertaining show...funny, that crowd wasnt very into us in your hometown

That's because you weren't as entertaining as YOU think Shore was. Sorry, but I was there too, and from the sidelines, you didn't "entertain" the crowd.

T. Allen is right, Bush starts out non-entertaining and yet, comes around by Labor Day (they are a surprise, so watch out)

And Liz's comment about how people never leave DCA saying "huh?".....she obviously hasn't been around many years. Honey, that's been going on for many years!!! I can remember people throwing programs when the top two scores have been announced. So much noise that you couldn't even hear the announcement of the top score!!

Just my $.02

[Mick Krackin']

Mr. Allen,

All DCA fans do not enjoy the kind of drum corps that the Reading Buccaneers put on the field, but many of them do. This is evident by the reaction we get at every show, including the Rochester show. I don't remember hearing any gasps of "Huh?" from the audience in Rochester. I'm sure being a home show for the Statesmen, there were a lot of people pulling for the home corps, but I found the audience to be very drum corps friendly.

Were you at DCA Finals last year when the final scores were announced? The Buccaneers received an amazing ovation after the scores were announced. This went on for several minutes. I again heard no audible "Huhs?' from the audience.

All DCA fans do not enjoy the Empire Statesmen, but many of them do. When they were announced champions just two years ago, the DCA crowd in Scranton gave it up for them too. The same is true with the Cabs, Bush, and every other DCA corps out there. Some people are into each of them, while others are not.

DCA is fortunate to have corps with very distinctive identities and a very wide variety of show styles. Would those of you that are not Bucs fans that have been throwing "vague insults" at my corps rather have everyone play the style of show that you most enjoy? That would get pretty boring pretty fast, wouldn't it?

You mentioned a list of three great directors from DCA that took part in the development of the current DCA Philosophy. You left out a gentleman, Mr. Jim Gruber, whose tireless efforts, along with a great team of friends, brought the Buccaneers back into the main stage and back into contention. Mr. Gruber and Mr. Tierno are well respected among the DCA directors, in fact that group chose Mr. Gruber as their Director of the Year last season. They have been the voice of reason in many heated arguments at DCA meetings.

If you are not sure who these two guys are, they were the ones putting down hashes at the stadium last Saturday before the show started. This is typical of these two guys. Whatever the corps needs, they make sure it happens, even if it means they have to roll up their sleeves and do it themselves. Their administrative team is a total class act.

There is no "Templin-ocracy" or any other kind of DCA conspiracy for that matter. Mr. Templin has devoted much of his time over the last several decades to DCA, along with several band and indoor guard/percussion circuits and deserves more respect than you give him in your post. Do I always agree with all of his judges? Of course not, and I am not shy about letting them know that sometimes. But I am confident that the ladies and gentlemen that are given the difficult task of adjudicating DCA contests are trying to do their best. Do they always get it right? No, but who does? Is their occasionally a judge that is not the most objective, unbiased person? Probably once in a rare while, but DCA has a system in place to get rid of people that are not willing to do a fair, unbiased job.

DCA has at least a four way race going right now for the top and probably an even closer race for 5, 6 & 7. There is even a very heated brawl just to get into finals this year. This is a good thing for the fans. Four corps, all with distinctly different styles, fighting it out for the top spot. What more could any drum corps fan ask for?

[LegalEagle50]

And Liz's comment about how people never leave DCA saying "huh?".....she obviously hasn't been around many years. Honey, that's been going on for many years!!! I can remember people throwing programs when the top two scores have been announced. So much noise that you couldn't even hear the announcement of the top score!!

Just my $.02

i've been around since 1991.

and i never said NEVER. so much for that theory.

what i asked was when the last time was that that happened? IMO it was the year Empire & Brigs tied.

the years Brigs won the championship fully they were the best corps on the field at finals IMO even if they weren't my favorite corps.

i've seen people hope that their favorite corps would win and get pissy over it not happening but i truly believe that, at least, the last 4 years the absolute best corps on the field walked away with the trophy.

[spcbrass]

The best written/designed show is clearly winning, and I have no problems with that...what I do have a problem with is when the design bleeds over into the performance captions. Is that not why we have performace captions? Great Design does not make great performers and to be honest some really great performing entities of many drum corps have left the stadium going "huh?" Then they get their dvd's and go "huh!" I'm not necessarily speaking even between the top groups, but also groups in the middle of the pack. Seriously how many of you think that Renegades Brass the past few years is a 4th or 5th place brass line? How many of you thought that Cabs drumline was not in the top 2 or 3 every year? The design has been weighted too heavily on the performance sheets. We have sheets for that and there are already more then enough points to go around. Keep those numbers out of the performance sheets.

Which leads me back to my original question...what ever happened to actual acievement?

[Jeff Ream]

That's because you weren't as entertaining as YOU think Shore was. Sorry, but I was there too, and from the sidelines, you didn't "entertain" the crowd.

T. Allen is right, Bush starts out non-entertaining and yet, comes around by Labor Day (they are a surprise, so watch out)

And Liz's comment about how people never leave DCA saying "huh?".....she obviously hasn't been around many years. Honey, that's been going on for many years!!! I can remember people throwing programs when the top two scores have been announced. So much noise that you couldn't even hear the announcement of the top score!!

Just my $.02

note...i said HE said we were entertaining. I didnt say we were. i personally think 95 was more fan friendly than 96.

and i do remember one retreat like that about, oh 16 years ago.

[Jeff Ream]

Mr. Allen,

All DCA fans do not enjoy the kind of drum corps that the Reading Buccaneers put on the field, but many of them do. This is evident by the reaction we get at every show, including the Rochester show. I don't remember hearing any gasps of "Huh?" from the audience in Rochester. I'm sure being a home show for the Statesmen, there were a lot of people pulling for the home corps, but I found the audience to be very drum corps friendly.

Were you at DCA Finals last year when the final scores were announced? The Buccaneers received an amazing ovation after the scores were announced. This went on for several minutes. I again heard no audible "Huhs?' from the audience.

All DCA fans do not enjoy the Empire Statesmen, but many of them do. When they were announced champions just two years ago, the DCA crowd in Scranton gave it up for them too. The same is true with the Cabs, Bush, and every other DCA corps out there. Some people are into each of them, while others are not.

DCA is fortunate to have corps with very distinctive identities and a very wide variety of show styles. Would those of you that are not Bucs fans that have been throwing "vague insults" at my corps rather have everyone play the style of show that you most enjoy? That would get pretty boring pretty fast, wouldn't it?

You mentioned a list of three great directors from DCA that took part in the development of the current DCA Philosophy. You left out a gentleman, Mr. Jim Gruber, whose tireless efforts, along with a great team of friends, brought the Buccaneers back into the main stage and back into contention. Mr. Gruber and Mr. Tierno are well respected among the DCA directors, in fact that group chose Mr. Gruber as their Director of the Year last season. They have been the voice of reason in many heated arguments at DCA meetings.

If you are not sure who these two guys are, they were the ones putting down hashes at the stadium last Saturday before the show started. This is typical of these two guys. Whatever the corps needs, they make sure it happens, even if it means they have to roll up their sleeves and do it themselves. Their administrative team is a total class act.

There is no "Templin-ocracy" or any other kind of DCA conspiracy for that matter. Mr. Templin has devoted much of his time over the last several decades to DCA, along with several band and indoor guard/percussion circuits and deserves more respect than you give him in your post. Do I always agree with all of his judges? Of course not, and I am not shy about letting them know that sometimes. But I am confident that the ladies and gentlemen that are given the difficult task of adjudicating DCA contests are trying to do their best. Do they always get it right? No, but who does? Is their occasionally a judge that is not the most objective, unbiased person? Probably once in a rare while, but DCA has a system in place to get rid of people that are not willing to do a fair, unbiased job.

DCA has at least a four way race going right now for the top and probably an even closer race for 5, 6 & 7. There is even a very heated brawl just to get into finals this year. This is a good thing for the fans. Four corps, all with distinctly different styles, fighting it out for the top spot. What more could any drum corps fan ask for?

five?

:P

(hey you asked)

[Jeff Ream]

The best written/designed show is clearly winning, and I have no problems with that...what I do have a problem with is when the design bleeds over into the performance captions. Is that not why we have performace captions? Great Design does not make great performers and to be honest some really great performing entities of many drum corps have left the stadium going "huh?" Then they get their dvd's and go "huh!" I'm not necessarily speaking even between the top groups, but also groups in the middle of the pack. Seriously how many of you think that Renegades Brass the past few years is a 4th or 5th place brass line? How many of you thought that Cabs drumline was not in the top 2 or 3 every year? The design has been weighted too heavily on the performance sheets. We have sheets for that and there are already more then enough points to go around. Keep those numbers out of the performance sheets.

Which leads me back to my original question...what ever happened to actual acievement?

thatr's something to ask the people who vote on how the sheets are wordered. my complaint with DCA and DCI is that GE is the only captions not averaged

[Kamarag]

Which leads me back to my original question...what ever happened to actual acievement?

Are you saying that the last four or so champions weren't the best achieving and best executing ones on the field each year? I'd say you were dead wrong. If anything, going back the last four champions, each and every time the winner was clearly the winner, both in design and execution. That deosn't mean the winner had my favorite show, but I can see that they deserved the title.

This year is shaping up to be no different.

As for the rest of the placements, I really don't think that lack of 'execution' is being eclipsed by design. If anything, great execution enhances design.

Edited August 1, 2006 by Kamarag