TastyWaves Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 With all of this talk of completely changing the system, let me ask a question. even for those who disagree with the percussion champ at this years DCAs, is it completley inconcievable to you that they won? Can you see how they were competative? Do you think they were top 2 or 3 material? I mean it wasnt exactly a blowout. All year the #s were close. Would those of you questioning the system disagree with the top 2 or 3 percussion placements altogether? OR do we feel that like the 11th place team (dont freak out! i dont even know who that was) should have won percussion? I figure with the skill and design at the top of the DCA percussion game, its gonna be close. So it really could have gone any way. It was just a performance that night. So while there are minor flaws in the system, i dont think we can call it a failure or call for a complete and total change unless were getting into allof the top 5 percussion units being totally wrong. The last couple of years tho it has felt pretty close to correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drumnman2004 Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 With all of this talk of completely changing the system, let me ask a question.even for those who disagree with the percussion champ at this years DCAs, is it completley inconcievable to you that they won? Can you see how they were competative? Do you think they were top 2 or 3 material? I mean it wasnt exactly a blowout. All year the #s were close. Would those of you questioning the system disagree with the top 2 or 3 percussion placements altogether? OR do we feel that like the 11th place team (dont freak out! i dont even know who that was) should have won percussion? I figure with the skill and design at the top of the DCA percussion game, its gonna be close. So it really could have gone any way. It was just a performance that night. So while there are minor flaws in the system, i dont think we can call it a failure or call for a complete and total change unless were getting into allof the top 5 percussion units being totally wrong. The last couple of years tho it has felt pretty close to correct. I posed the question earlier..."did the best percussion section win ?". The answer is YES !...(the way the sheets are designed now). Would that have changed having a demerit system in place ? Very possibly !! When we had a tick system the best lines still won, and everyone pretty much fell in line as far as placement goes. As you stated above, we didn't need a total overhaul of the system we had...but it happened anyways ! We were hurting someones feelings by telling them when they made a mistake ! HOW DARE WE !!!! .....Give me a freakin' break ! Let's face it, if DCI said they needed some form of demerit system, we would all say ..."Oh, how new and innovative !". Quite honestly, we weren't protective enough of what we had...which was a system that worked ! We let someone preach to us what someone else was doing, instead of protecting DCA ! OUR BAD !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TastyWaves Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 I posed the question earlier..."did the best percussion section win ?".The answer is YES !...(the way the sheets are designed now). Would that have changed having a demerit system in place ? Very possibly !! When we had a tick system the best lines still won, and everyone pretty much fell in line as far as placement goes. As you stated above, we didn't need a total overhaul of the system we had...but it happened anyways ! We were hurting someones feelings by telling them when they made a mistake ! HOW DARE WE !!!! .....Give me a freakin' break ! Let's face it, if DCI said they needed some form of demerit system, we would all say ..."Oh, how new and innovative !". Quite honestly, we weren't protective enough of what we had...which was a system that worked ! We let someone preach to us what someone else was doing, instead of protecting DCA ! OUR BAD !!! I dont think its about hurting anyones feelings dude, I think it was about pushing things along a little. Tick system is a remarkably simple system. Less ticks equals higher score. So the solution to win? Decrease the margin for error. In other words simplify. Make it as simple as possible and you will win. you will win becuase "homey the field judge"s little click counter barely moved because "Line A" didnt play anything. Those pushing for a complete change of the system still have not offered any explanation of how a pit will be evaluated. UH OH! ITS NOT A SNARE DRUM! I DONT KNOW HOW TO JUDGE IT! The "Bad" is all mine bro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drumnman2004 Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 I dont think its about hurting anyones feelings dude, I think it was about pushing things along a little. Tick system is a remarkably simple system. Less ticks equals higher score. So the solution to win? Decrease the margin for error. In other words simplify. Make it as simple as possible and you will win. you will win becuase "homey the field judge"s little click counter barely moved because "Line A" didnt play anything. Those pushing for a complete change of the system still have not offered any explanation of how a pit will be evaluated. UH OH! ITS NOT A SNARE DRUM! I DONT KNOW HOW TO JUDGE IT! The "Bad" is all mine bro. Refer to my post at the bottom of page 3... Actually, the system was removed because the 'tick' was a form of punishment ! I know it sounds silly, but it's true !! That's why we incorporated a system of checks and balances. A given line could play absolutely nothing and get a great execution score, but a line that wasn't as clean that 'stuck their neck out' (so-to-speak) would receive a higher demand score, and most likely win the caption ! One of my earlier drumlines actually beat SCV in field percussion at a major contest with one of the biggest tickers in the activity judging on the field, but because their demand was greater... they won drums ! I am what you would call a total percussionist ! In my post on page 3, I suggested that the pit receive the same evaluation as field drums and fall within the same guidelines. For ANY form of evaluation to work, the judges need to be educated, and again, I don't believe that has been done in some time ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cymbal_steve Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 I don't even want to think about how cymbal lines would be treated in this plan....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drumnman2004 Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 I don't even want to think about how cymbal lines would be treated in this plan....... again...refer to my post on the bottom of page 3 ! You have to know the techniques before you can evaluate it ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cymbal_steve Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 So...........when are you guys with your master plan going to submit this to rules congress? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 Actually, the system was removed because the 'tick' was a form of punishment ! I know it sounds silly, but it's true !! I was around around at the time of transition away from execution judging and it had absolutely nothing to do with punishment. In the tick system it took 14 judges to evaluate a contest. 4 judges each for visual, brass, and percussion, plus a tabulator and T&P judge. The cost to pay, house, and transport judges was rather high. For DCI they reduced the panel to 9, with 3 judges for each caption. This was done to save money. There was discussion to go with one execution judge and an analysis judge for each caption, but it was felt that having only one judge ticking would be problematic due to the sometimes wide discrepencies between judges. The corps decided that having two judges with a build up, one on the field and the other in the box was the way to go. People that favor the ticking have brought the punishment factor up for the last 20 years, but that was never part of the discussion I was privy to back in the day. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storkysr Posted September 27, 2006 Author Share Posted September 27, 2006 All joking aside...yes, it IS the little things that (in the end) MUST be the deciding factor ! Yes, my proposal was radical....it was designed to provoke discussion, which it seems to have done quite well. I agree with Rick that the most important single improvement would be "reverting" to a form of tick system. This MUST, IMHO, be accompanied by a sufficiently weighted DEMAND caption. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storkysr Posted September 28, 2006 Author Share Posted September 28, 2006 With all of this talk of completely changing the system, let me ask a question.even for those who disagree with the percussion champ at this years DCAs, is it completley inconcievable to you that they won? Can you see how they were competative? Do you think they were top 2 or 3 material? I mean it wasnt exactly a blowout. All year the #s were close. Would those of you questioning the system disagree with the top 2 or 3 percussion placements altogether? OR do we feel that like the 11th place team (dont freak out! i dont even know who that was) should have won percussion? I figure with the skill and design at the top of the DCA percussion game, its gonna be close. So it really could have gone any way. It was just a performance that night. So while there are minor flaws in the system, i dont think we can call it a failure or call for a complete and total change unless were getting into allof the top 5 percussion units being totally wrong. The last couple of years tho it has felt pretty close to correct. I agree the Cabs and Bucs were close and are fine lines. Either one of them could have taken it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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