honor guard?

[markdewine]

For anyone who doesn't mind a little history...Honor Guards had their birth in ancient times. Military units from as far back as Assyria and Egypt carried banners or placards to distinguish one group from another, on the battlefields. A commander was able to see the relative center of each of his groups, and make command decisions accordingly. It was not long before unit pride became a part of the mix, and banner carriers were guarded, lest their "colors" fall into enemy hands. Prior to WWI, if a military unit surrendered their colors, or had them captured, they were bound by honor, to not fight again, until they regained their colors. Pretty serious stuff.

Funny story about the Regimental Color bearer of the 69th NY Volunteers from NY city, an all-Irish Civil War group of hard chargers. During a fierce exchange of musketry, the flagpole was shot in half, and the colors fell to the ground. The Irish retreated a hundred yards and readied for another charge. All of the sudden, this little Irish color bearer ran back out across the battlefield and grabbed the green silk with the Irish harp on it......and he ran back to his own lines. His comrades cheered and whistled and pounded him on the back, shaking his hand...commending him for his bravery! He replied that during the fiercest part of the battle, he had dropped his whiskey flask. So, when he ran back out on the field to grab his whiskey flask, he said it was the least he could do to get the colors too, since they were laying there! b**bs

[Commander71]

Perhaps another reason for the demise of the honour guard (Canadian spelling eh?) was the fact that they could be the cause of many an un-wanted penalty. Drills back in the day had to be carefully crafted in order not to dishonour the rules of the flag code. Drums and horns during the drill routines had to be carefully placed so that penalty points were avoided. It was always great to see how corps would try to make their colour presentations "different" but still stay within the flag code and avoid the penalty(s). Sometimes championships hinged on these perceived errors.

Didn't Sunrisers lose a major contest or championship back in the early 1970's with an honour guard penalty or violation?

It has now become much easier to either disregard them until retreat or stick them in the far corner to avoid any possible penalties.

[KoyaanisCABsi]

Again, I think the only time the HG can incur penalties that count against the corps is if they are actually "competing" as in an American Legion show or parade, or the examples Tom gave. We knew what the violations were & as a matter of practice and respect, never committed them whether we were competing or not.

[oldbaritone]

It is a great question. There are many reasons, and Linda Doty gave a fine explanation already. It comes down to respecting the flag of our nation and what it stands for. Freedom is not free, and the price of freedom (paraphrasing Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young) is buried in the ground. My father served in the Army Air Corps as a fighter pilot in WW II, and the flag that laid on his casket during his military funeral is in a display case next to my desk as I write this message. Administrations and leaders come and go in our country, some far better than others, but the ideals and freedom of our country endure.

As far as why DCI doesn't have honor guards - they used to and they stopped. In my humble opinion, it was far more important to the directors of DCI to have our nation's flag off the field and out of the way so it wouldn't detract from their esoteric shows than it was to honor our country. This is one of the many reasons that I haven't seen a DCI show in years.

Lighten up. If you don't like esoteric DCI shows, fine; I'm not a huge fan myself. The fact of the matter is that junior drum corps severed its ties with veteran's organizations years ago. They are under no more obligation to honor their nation's flag everytime they perform than my kid's high school's musical is. And, I spent 18 months in the I Corps RVN, my father was in the Pacific in WWII and my uncle was KIA in Italy.

Regards

Dave Tichy

[Shenandoah Vibrato]

^OO^ Did I mention that Shenandoah Sound has an outstanding honor guard? ^OO^ Thanks! Elks :mmm:

[corpsreps]

Few years ago I was told that the pit members of some DCI corps acted as an Honor Guard during retreat ceremonies. Don't think I was ever told which corps were doing this.

And I do know that DCI cut back on retreat this past season.........

Having the pit do HG for retreat and parades is common in Div III where the corps numbers are smaller. I know LVK did that when my son was with them. In Div I, the pit - if they go to the parade - usually are responsible for carrying and distributing water. And except for Finals, a Div I pit doesn't usually do retreat.

[K2SMA]

...Didn't Sunrisers lose a major contest or championship back in the early 1970's with an honour guard penalty or violation?

In general terms, the Congressional Flag Code says that no flag may fly above, in front of, or to the right of the American flag. No flag should be larger than the American flag.

I don't recall this happening to the Sunrisers, but...

In 1974, the Syracuse Brigadiers, which had not fielded a corps in 1973, put together an amazing 6-week reconstruction project for the purpose or regaining DCA membership and a place in Finals. At the time, 12 corps from prelims were included as members and finalists.

At DCA Prelims, the Brigs' American flag was measured by the chief judge and found to be SMALLER than the 16 flags in their colorguard. The rules at the time called for a penalty of 0.1 for each infraction, thus the corps received a 1.6 point penalty in prelims, which dropped them to 13th place.

The corps subsequently folded (but not for this reason alone) and the Brigadiers did not compete in another DCA Championship until 1992, some 18 years later.

[CozyChopsCom]

It is a great question. There are many reasons, and Linda Doty gave a fine explanation already. It comes down to respecting the flag of our nation and what it stands for. Freedom is not free, and the price of freedom (paraphrasing Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young) is buried in the ground. My father served in the Army Air Corps as a fighter pilot in WW II, and the flag that laid on his casket during his military funeral is in a display case next to my desk as I write this message. Administrations and leaders come and go in our country, some far better than others, but the ideals and freedom of our country endure.

As far as why DCI doesn't have honor guards - they used to and they stopped. In my humble opinion, it was far more important to the directors of DCI to have our nation's flag off the field and out of the way so it wouldn't detract from their esoteric shows than it was to honor our country. This is one of the many reasons that I haven't seen a DCI show in years.

Lighten up. If you don't like esoteric DCI shows, fine; I'm not a huge fan myself. The fact of the matter is that junior drum corps severed its ties with veteran's organizations years ago. They are under no more obligation to honor their nation's flag everytime they perform than my kid's high school's musical is. And, I spent 18 months in the I Corps RVN, my father was in the Pacific in WWII and my uncle was KIA in Italy.

Regards

Dave Tichy

DCI doesn't have honor guards anymore because it reflects on the final count of the drum corps...so they won't be able to field the 126 (# may have changed)...so they cut it out to field more performers.

It's a shame that ALL drum corps don't fly the colors, but someone once said "change is good"...not.

Barbara

Those of you "preaching" to Roger are preaching to the choir. Roger knows all about why the DCI honor guards went by the wayside.

135 or 128, the max limit doesn't matter. DCI could easily have the same rule as DCA: The honor guard doesn't count in the total. Methinks it has more to do with eroding of patriotic presentation, bus limitations and difficulties having a solid honor guard throughout extensive touring.

Bruce Lindsay and Tom P. are right on. Separation from military orgs like VFW and AL not only affected touring but led to changes in honour guards and colour pres, especially when some penalties rocked the parties.

All of the '06 DCI Championships Finalists appeared at retreat with honor guards, thankfully. Two of them posted wrong. I got the worst offender fixed, sorta, through a third party, but one official didn't care to fix the other. It was more important to him to get into my face.

Unlike some past years when I graded DCI honor guards in print, I'm handling the mistakes in private e-mails to the corps, beginning with thanking them for carrying the colors. My advice to anyone who corrects an honor guard: Thank them first for displaying national colors.

I didn't notice any DCA honor guard make mistakes. Actually, in the past few years, I've only noticed one major infraction, but I was given enthusiastic permission to fix it. (Fixes have proper protocol, too, which was not done properly in Madison.)

I spotted an alumni corps this summer degrading the flag following a theatrical gesture, but they fixed the error before their next performance two nights later.

I love having honor guards on the field during performances...I just despise the evolvement of "hiding" the honor guards faced away and stuffed off in a corner. I know why; still hate it. Hiding our honor guard in "timeout" beats not having the flag on the field, but it's a sad commentary on today's 'Merica.

I was proud to set aside my horn this year and march with some phenomenal July 4th honor guard members made up of CorpsVets color guard one parade, and members of our pit, hornline and the daughter of a sop player. Made my buttons pop with pride. Thanks to Brad Hood, Tom Colgan et al. for letting and wanting us to "make it so." Thanks to Jerald Sheets for inspiring others to learn flag code.

[G-horns]

I believe using the honor guard from the guard at retreat is appropriate

I agree, but only if the people involved know what they're doing. I've seen too many "Dishonor Guards". If you know the US Flag Code, you'll know what I'm talking about.

[KoyaanisCABsi]

I agree, but only if the people involved know what they're doing. I've seen too many "Dishonor Guards". If you know the US Flag Code, you'll know what I'm talking about.

Maybe in some local ya-hoo parade, but I know of none in DCA.