Posting Photos - a discussion thread

[byline]

No you didn't cry. You just took all your toys (pics) and went home and pouted!

It's very easy to characterize others that way . . . and it could be a mischaracterization. That's why we should try to avoid that on these boards, because many times we don't personally know the people involved, and so we really don't understand why they did what they did, That's probably fair to say on both sides of this issue.

Another way of looking at this is if a person has had a photo of theirs taken and used in a way they didn't want (this is covered by copyright law), it's their right to do something about it. And if it keeps on happening, then wouldn't it be reasonable to remove one's own photos to keep it from happening again?

It's too bad it came to this, because it probably came about mainly due to misunderstanding, not malice or an intent to deliberately deprive someone of revenue. But part of me has to wonder if it was inevitable. As Ron and I think a few others have pointed out, if you post something on the Internet, chances are that because people can, they will grab it and use it in ways that aren't right. Not very many people, but enough that it will create the kind of firestorm we've seen here. Shouldn't have happened, but I think it was probably inevitable.

[SBrancheau]

No you didn't cry. You just took all your toys (pics) and went home and pouted!

I don't blame Malibu for doing that, either. I'd have done the same thing...only yelled a WHOLE lot louder than she EVER did.

You know, to sell someone else's photos for your own personal gain is tacky at best and bad form at worst. There's no personal integrity at all.

You know, ptr250, that would be like your next-door neighbor stealing your personal stuff and having a garage sale the next day with your stuff in it...on display...for you to see. They are trying to profit from your hard work (after all, I assume you work hard for what you have...and it's important to you, right?)...

So, Malibu made sure no one else would profit monetarily from her treasure trove of drum corps history. And we lose because of someone's bone-headed stupidity and lack of integrity.

[sarnia sam]

Blond fella with the ponytail and black jacket in the snare line? Yes, I'm pretty sure that's his name (though John and the other Sue will be better with names of folks in the drumline than I am). This was still early in the season, and as I recall he and several other Optimists had just joined up.

Seneca folded after the '78 season, and so some brave souls came over to Oakland for the '79 season. I don't think I fully appreciated how hard that must have been for them (and this gets back to part of the discussion going on in the North Star thread). At the time, I had a rather immature "better them than us" mentality about Seneca folding (and also Cardinals of Precious Blood, who folded around the same time). Of course, it was just a matter of time for Oakland too, but the Seneca and Cardinals influx into our membership saved us that season. We wouldn't have been able to field a corps without them. And I'm sure it was at great emotional cost to the people whose loyalties for their own corps still ran so strong.

Apologies John, but correcting this info in another thread doesn't seem to be advantageous. I'll keep it short.

The guy not in uniform is Shawn Watt. Darryl played tenors. I don't see Darryl in in this pic. We had 6 tenors and I only see two, maybe three. Ron Huckstep is the one on the near end. I'm the one with my head jutting out in the tenor line. We had a ton of Cardinals in the corps that year, way more than folks from Optimists, though there were several Optimists who came over. More Optimists came the following year.

Regards,

John Swartz

[audiodb]

Since there are two threads on the same subject I'm posting my responce on both.

You know this whole mess started because some babies started crying that someone was selling their pictures. How much money was actually involved $100.00, $500.00, $1000.00? I’ll bet it was less than $100.00. All of this commotion for chump change! Some of you people need to get a life. I’m going to start posting a few more pics and if you want to sell the prints for a few cents, knock yourself out!

First of all, you can't speak for everyone else regarding what amount of money is (or isn't) trivial. Different people live on different budgets.

Secondly, there's often more than one person involved. Say I get permission to post someone else's photo on here, and it gets copied and sold on eBay without asking for consent. It's not just whether that bugs me, but rather what the owner of the photo thinks as well. And it's hard to get anyone to cooperate with you when these shenanigans are commonplace.

[MarimbasaurusRex]

Yes, you CAN flip out and make public accusations and cause all kinds of grief and hard feelings when someone misappropriates your snapshot. That's your right. But that doesn't make it right. I've had art work stolen from my websites by Microsoft, Java, UCLA and several other gigantic institutions and individual designers. Was I able to stop any of them? Sometimes, but mostly no. Did I get a penny? No. Do I care anymore? No. Did they make money off of my work? Darn right they did. But, I got over it and am still here to tell the tale.

Just be glad that no one really lawyered up here or you all would be in a huge expensive unneccesary mess. Some might like to live their lives that way, but I'm not one of them. Give me a shady tree on a warm day and I'm happy. Take my photos, please.

[jjchar72]

Since there are two threads on the same subject I'm posting my responce on both.

You know this whole mess started because some babies started crying that someone was selling their pictures. How much money was actually involved $100.00, $500.00, $1000.00? I’ll bet it was less than $100.00. All of this commotion for chump change! Some of you people need to get a life. I’m going to start posting a few more pics and if you want to sell the prints for a few cents, knock yourself out!

A couple years ago I had the problem with someone stealing photographs off of my website and then selling them on EBay. Unfortunately for me, I was selling them on my website. I had them as 2"x3" to view and had my name, ©, and the date on the bottom of them. I also had htlm code so you could not right click and copy & paste. Well, this person figured out a way to get my work off of my site, cut just enough off of the bottom to take off the copyright, photoshoped them into larger sizes, and sold them for less money than I was. I lost money because of it. Enough money that I took him to court. I eventually won, but never saw a penny because he took off and disappeared. Apparently, I wasn't the only person that he was stealing copyrighted work from. At least there's a court judgement against this person that will follow him around wherever he decides to hide. With all the money I lost because of this, I believe it was well worth it. And if the day comes I decide to put any of my work on the internet again, either for sale or exhibition, and someone steals any of it and uses it for any reason without my permission (I don't care if its for profit or just puts it on their website for show, which makes it look like it's their work), I will not hestitate to take anyone to court for copyright infringement. I don't care how much it'll cost me and how much I lose. Steal from me again and I'll make #### sure you pay for your crime. Theft is theft. That's all there is to it.

[byline]

The guy not in uniform is Shawn Watt. Darryl played tenors. I don't see Darryl in in this pic. We had 6 tenors and I only see two, maybe three. Ron Huckstep is the one on the near end. I'm the one with my head jutting out in the tenor line. We had a ton of Cardinals in the corps that year, way more than folks from Optimists, though there were several Optimists who came over. More Optimists came the following year.

Thanks for the correction, John!

[Malibu]

No you didn't cry. You just took all your toys (pics) and went home and pouted!

Again, no crying or pouting from me. After having pictures taken TWICE from me, was enough for me to delete them all. Yes, it is ashamed considering I had lots more to share, but when you steal from me and promise not to do it again only to DO IT AGAIN, is enough for me to take drastic actions to prevent further illegal transactions.

[edempsey]

Sorry to take so long to complete this post, but the Drum Corps International office along with Drum Corps Planet have worked together for the past few weeks to come to an agreement on DCI's position on posting photographs. We both believe that the sharing and discussion of positive drum corps memories on Drum Corps Planet serves to support the drum and bugle corps activity as a whole. In the spirit of the continued growth of the community of drum and bugle corps fans throughout the world, Drum Corps International would like to clarify its position on the use and the sharing of personal photographs on the Drum Corps Planet web site.

The fundamental mission and intent of Drum Corps International is to protect the interests of its member corps. It is important that fans wishing to post images take the time to make themselves aware of the specific polices of the individual corps depicted in their photographs. While members of the Drum Corps Planet are certainly free to share their personal photos on the DCP site, under no circumstances can the photographs or images of current or past DCI corps, or those photos taken at any DCI-sanctioned event, be sold or used for any commercial purpose without the permission of the individual corps and/or Drum Corps International.

Further, nothing in this note shall be interpreted to grant any permission for the distribution or reproduction of any materials copyrighted by DCI or its member corps. Drum Corps International does not presume to have rights to images beyond our scope -- meaning those images depicting corps prior to the formation of DCI as well as those of organizations which are inactive -- and therefore has no position on images which may be posted as they pertain to these organizations.

Finally, it is our hope that good taste and human dignity will always be kept in mind when posting images of any drum corps. Each of the corps work hard to create a positive reputation and professional image, and we all work very hard to ensure that the corps and their members are presented in a favorable light. We hope that the global community of drum corps fans will continue to enjoy the spellbinding performances of the world's most elite and exclusive marching music ensembles, and we look forward to sharing many great memories in the years ahead with fans everywhere.

Ed Dempsey

Drum Corps International

Manager, Strategic Alliances

[JohnD]

Thank you to Ed, Dan Acheson and the DCI staff for working thru this issue ... and providing DCP and its members with 'official permission' to continue the important work of preserving and sharing the history of this great activity.

Our job now is to act responsibly and adhere to the guidelines set forth. We will strictly enforce the restriction on posting copyrighted materials and the 800x600 size limitation. Doing so will ensure that we, and future members and visitors, can enjoy the photos that you're contributing for a long time to come.

Thank you to our members for their patience while we finalized this agreement.

-john