Northern Lights is NOT a rare example...

[EMStar85]

DCI does not have the authority to disband corp. They can only choose who is actually a member of DCI. That's it.

VERY true. We're hearing more and more lately: "DCI should step in and {insert action here}!" Only in matters that affect touring should they ever do anything. Reminds me of the citizens of the US increasingly expecting the Imperial Federal Government to "take care of them". [/soapbox]

So if MCG wants to continue to fundrasie with only 2 board members, that's their right.

This, however, is dependent on their Articles of Incorporation and/or Bylaws. If they're supposed to have a min # of board members and they don't...they're wrong. But we don't know what they're supposed to have and I, for one, don't care. That's between them and the State of Ohio. Period.

Oh (getting back on the box), let's disabuse ourselves of the notion that a not-for-profit isn't allowed to make a profit. The only thing that separates a for-profit corporation and a not-for-profit corporation (besides paying taxes on certain income) is that the "shareholders", board, and principals of a not-for-profit can not be paid dividends or renumerated for their services. BUT, if, say, the Executive Director is also the corps director, it's perfectly within the law to pay that person for their services as corps director.

Of COURSE a not-for-profit needs to be profitable...profit is what builds the coffers.

Now, if a not-for-profit is not using their net income to fund programs that fit within their mission, the IRS will eventually revoke their status. Again, that's not for anyone to judge/decide except the IRS.

[Guard Diva]

and remember, just because them putting out a full corps doesn't mean they are not putting out something............The last "drum corps" that Freelancer put out on the field was in 94, but there have been number drum lines and winterguards ever since..........some of which have medalled in WGI.........

[jwscv87]

Hey pal, no one gets to decide if a corps is "allowed to exist". Don't want to fund them? Don't donate. DCI does not have the authority to disband corp. They can only choose who is actually a member of DCI. That's it. So if MCG wants to continue to fundrasie with only 2 board members, that's their right. I'm with drumcat, you are in no place to judge or say who is "allowed" to do what just because you don't like it.

Seems like a complete overreaction to a reasonable set of questions to me. Yes, somebody does get to "judge" the validity of a 501c3 designation - the IRS, and the rest of us are certainly free to discuss.

I would bet that behind nearly every non-performing drum corps that continues exist are well-intentioned folks working hard with geniune hopes and expectations to perform again. At the same time the 501c3 status can be ripe for abuse by individuals wishing to create a livelihood under the guise of a good cause. At some point if the "good cause" is not delivered the plug has to be pulled.

[Blackstar]

I can't understand why everyone is so upset. It happens, maybe not all the time but it happenes. Take the Anaheim Kingsmen. Carl Rocco (sic) ran bingo for years and from what I read never even tried to field a corps or anything else.

And this is very easy to do. As long as you donate a protion of the proceeds to a youth grup your covered legally. It can be a little as a penny for each dollar earned. And being a non-profit doesn;t mean you can'tmake money. An Executive Director can earned hundreds of thousands of dollars if thats what the board decides. The Board gets paid also, alot of bad things can come out of things like this without the proper oversight.

[Morgoth Bauglir]

Seems like a complete overreaction to a reasonable set of questions to me. Yes, somebody does get to "judge" the validity of a 501c3 designation - the IRS, and the rest of us are certainly free to discuss.

I would bet that behind nearly every non-performing drum corps that continues exist are well-intentioned folks working hard with geniune hopes and expectations to perform again. At the same time the 501c3 status can be ripe for abuse by individuals wishing to create a livelihood under the guise of a good cause. At some point if the "good cause" is not delivered the plug has to be pulled.

Actualy the original post was the over reacts. 'OMG Marion Glory isn't fielding a corp yet they're still fundraising!! Let's kick them out!" Give me a break. MCG can do whatever they want within the confines of their deal with the IRS.

[Liam]

VERY true. We're hearing more and more lately: "DCI should step in and {insert action here}!" Only in matters that affect touring should they ever do anything. Reminds me of the citizens of the US increasingly expecting the Imperial Federal Government to "take care of them". [/soapbox]

Yes and no. I see nothing wrong with DCI setting rules as to what you must comply with to belong to their organization. Agreed, that just because you join, you don't have to obey DCI's every command and intrusion into your business, but DCI can set conditions to join that could include financial audits, safety checks, license checks, etc. Much like a company can be a corporation and do business as they please, but if they wish to have their stocks traded on the NYSE, they must agree to additional rules, oversight, etc that the NYSE requires. Don't want to subject yourself, you're free to not join and trade your stocks OTC or on another exchange. Maybe not as beneficial to you, but your choice. Same thing here -- don't want to put up with DCI's requirements, then go join another circuit or set out on your own to fulfill your mission. Maybe not as easy or sexy, but your choice nonetheless.

Again, I'm not advocating that DCI must or even should get more involved at this level, but the DCI Board (read:member corps) are perfectly within their rights to require it if they so choose.

... let's disabuse ourselves of the notion that a not-for-profit isn't allowed to make a profit. The only thing that separates a for-profit corporation and a not-for-profit corporation (besides paying taxes on certain income) is that the "shareholders", board, and principals of a not-for-profit can not be paid dividends or renumerated for their services....

Of COURSE a not-for-profit needs to be profitable...profit is what builds the coffers.

Absolutely true on this one. "Not-for-profit" doesn't mean that you are not to make a profit. It means that your overriding purpose of forming the company is not first and foremost to seek to make a profit -- it is to accomplish whatever is in your mission statement. Whether or not you do actually make a profit is irrelevant. A "for-profit" company, on the other hand, has as their overriding purpose to seek to make a profit.

[Eddie]

The drum corps are not the non-profit groups. They are units sponsored by the non-profit groups. Therefore, the non-profit groups are not required to handover/support any/all raised funds to a corps, unless it specifically states in their by-laws to do so.

[EMStar85]

Yes and no. I see nothing wrong with DCI setting rules as to what you must comply with to belong to their organization... but DCI can set conditions to join that could include financial audits, safety checks, license checks, etc.

We're saying the same thing...you just elaborated. :) "Only in matters that affect touring..." I lumped your examples into my not-so-eloquent statement. LOL

[Liam]

No worries .... :)

I also liked the comment directly above your last one (bari-benzo) about the distinction between the NFP organization and the corps itself. Point is, without knowing the specifics of the by-laws, mission statement, internal organization, etc of a particular situation, it's unfair to pass judgement on the situation as is. Even if the IRS determines that an org did something wrong, it may very well be a technical/legal wrong that in no way reflects a "drum corps morality" wrong, if you get my drift. Maybe not, but we're certainly in no position to judge from here.

Edited January 17, 2007 by Liam