Help with endurance/range

[Martybucs]

Another thing to consider is that of all the muscles in your face, there are only three that have anything to do with trumpet playing - the outer rim of the orbicularis, the zygomatic major and the risorius. The orbicularis controls the aperture, and the other two control the corners. You need only the absolute minimum tension in these muscles to produce a tone. Tension in any other muscle group is generally counter-productive.

Yes, and no. People actually produce the high notes in different manners. It's been proven that what actually happens is a shortening of the lip tissue vibrating when ascending and an increase in the length of lip tissue vibrating when descending. Like moving your fingers up and down the neck of a string instrument varies the pitch. People achieve this in various ways and using different muscle groups to achieve the end result.

IMO it is a concert of muscles moving in unison that helps you play in all ranges with clarity and endurance. Mechanically speaking, perhaps those three muscles mentioned above control the action of the lips. However, many people use their jaw muscles, (mandibular something), to help and many the chin and some the cheeks, (whatever muscles control the cheeks, I never studied anatomy)

I'm not attacking your post because it is valid and what you say works for you. It's just that I feel there is a little more involved. i.e. I find it much easier to play in the upper register, for long periods of time, standing up. In our jazz/swing band it didn't take a lot of convincing to talk everyone into standing when we perform.

Well, I don't mean to bore - it just happens.

[vferrera]

Yes, and no. People actually produce the high notes in different manners. It's been proven that what actually happens is a shortening of the lip tissue vibrating when ascending and an increase in the length of lip tissue vibrating when descending. Like moving your fingers up and down the neck of a string instrument varies the pitch. People achieve this in various ways and using different muscle groups to achieve the end result.

IMO it is a concert of muscles moving in unison that helps you play in all ranges with clarity and endurance. Mechanically speaking, perhaps those three muscles mentioned above control the action of the lips. However, many people use their jaw muscles, (mandibular something), to help and many the chin and some the cheeks, (whatever muscles control the cheeks, I never studied anatomy)

I'm not attacking your post because it is valid and what you say works for you. It's just that I feel there is a little more involved. i.e. I find it much easier to play in the upper register, for long periods of time, standing up. In our jazz/swing band it didn't take a lot of convincing to talk everyone into standing when we perform.

Well, I don't mean to bore - it just happens.

Regardless of the exact muscles involved, it's the "bottom-up" approach that I'm talking about. I.e. instead of starting with a preconceived notion that the entire lower face needs to be clenched like a fist (which is basically what I was taught), start by using as little tension as possible and build up from there. Like Wilkie said, it's a matter of keeping the lips together, which generally means using the three muscles I mentioned. Sure, you have to move your jaw a little, but that's never an issue for endurance. BTW, the jaw muscle (masseter) is the strongest muscles in your body for its size.

[Martybucs]

Regardless of the exact muscles involved, it's the "bottom-up" approach that I'm talking about. I.e. instead of starting with a preconceived notion that the entire lower face needs to be clenched like a fist (which is basically what I was taught), start by using as little tension as possible and build up from there. Like Wilkie said, it's a matter of keeping the lips together, which generally means using the three muscles I mentioned. Sure, you have to move your jaw a little, but that's never an issue for endurance. BTW, the jaw muscle (masseter) is the strongest muscles in your body for its size.

I'll buy that.

I'm not sure, but I think Drew can play using TCE. I think I remember that from TH Board.

[Jeff]

I accidentally posted this is the wrong forum initially..

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I play trumpet and I'm looking for a few ways to help expand my range and help my endurance. I know lip slurs help, but is there anything else that helps anyone else here with range? I can play comfortably to about a C above the staff.

Along with range help, does anyone have any ideas for endurance? Especially mid-range, it kills my lips. Does anyone else have this problem/ does anyone know how to help it?

Thanks for any help.

Perhaps if you tell us what mouthpiece and trumpet you play, how long you have been playing, and whether or not you are taking lessons, it would help focus the responses. Remember 99% of all trumpet playing is below high C.

Jeff

[Shadow_7]

I started picking up upper brasses in 2002 (grandparents were approaching 90). Before that I was a trombone / baritone player in grade school 6th grade (1981) to 12th grade (1989). And a Euphonium player in drumcorps (1988 - 1992). And a trombone player in college (1989 - 1993). And a trombone player in the Army (1994 - 1997). I played Euph with Westshoremen in (1998). And Euph with Cincinnati Tradition (2002). And Euph with Gulf Coast Sound (2004). And mellophone/french horn for the last four months of the (2005) season with Gulf Coast Sound. I played Euphonium with the Kilties (2006). And I'm still relatively undecided what I'm doing in 2007. Although the economics of it would assume whatever is cheapest, which so far looks like nothing towards DCA weekend in 2007.

As far as the mouthpiece. A smaller inner rim makes it slightly easier to hit higher notes. And sometimes harder to hit lower notes. A smaller bore makes it easier to sustain higher notes, although harder to play loud, and more of an effort to play anything in general.

As far as the horn, sharp crooks make for more resistence. Which makes it easier to play high, and harder to play low and loud. A smaller bore, more towards the same. More conical, the better it slots. The less conical, the less stable and easier to trill and such. A balancing act between form and function to say the least.

For me, range and endurance are one and the same. I'm more interested in endurance and comfort. Since experience shows that having those in reasonable tollerances make all else a relatively minor concern. You can always transpose an octave or two, but can't really fake being able to, or not be able to, play your horn.

[dctrumpetgrlie04]

Thanks everyone for the advice. Next time I take out my trumpet, prolly Moday, I'll bring up these posts and try out a few things.. see what works, etc. I really didn't think that this many people would respond. :)

I suppose it would have been a good idea to tell a little more information.

I've been playing trumpet since 7th grade. (I'm in 10th grade now.) I've done every season of everything since then. My rookie year of drum corps was in '04, and I've done marching band, concert band, jazz band, then back to drum corps and the cycle continues to this day.

I play on a gold Bach 5C. I liked the 5C and the gold was softer on my lips than the silver one. (I don't know if theres an actual difference between the two, but to me it seems so.) My trumpet is a Kanstul Custom Class. I bought it a few years ago from the Blue Coats.

I have a good tone, and I do lip slurs well, seeing as I do them like crazy. The sight reading is all right, could be better, but I have improved a lot.

I've wanted to take private lessons, but I haven't had time between my job (which is currently non-exsistant at this moment) , school, band, and winterguard. When I get my license and when things slow down, I'm pretty sure I'm going to find a teacher to help me, probably next year.

Hope this helps for any more advice.

[CloudHype]

First thing, everybody has a different concept so take what I say with that idea.

Lip Slurs- IMO, they are not ment for range development, they are for flexabilty. Two different things.

Compression not streching- Most high note players will say this. It's the compression of the lips not the streching of them. Many players get this backwards (again IMO). Corners are tight....corners as in where the outer rim of the mouthpiece ends NOT the corners of the lips(which need to remain tight also) . Say MMMMmmmm then set, then breath, then play. Don't let your embouchure distort when you take your breath.

Breath - I'm not going to turn this into a typical "drum corps" answer. Be sure to not cap your breath at the top of inhalation (and don't raise your shoulders. Simply remember, that air is either going into your lungs or it is going out. Breathe in then play NOT breathe in, HOLD, then play.

Relax... Tense body = Tense sound.

Mental- High notes are not high, just father away.

Edited February 4, 2007 by CloudHype

[CloudHype]

The thing that you (and everyone) needs to remember is that brass playing is 10% strength, and 90% coordination. Lip slurs will not give you high chops, they'll only help to teach you flexibility.

Wayne Bergeron could play double C's in the seventh grade. Why? He's not a freak, he was just a kid. But when he first picked up the horn, the embouchure setup that was most natural to him was one that could produce a double C. This proves that the innate facial strength of a seventh grader is all one needs to play a double C with power.

99.9% of the time, kids with no range are playing with their chops too spread apart in the mouthpiece. When they take a breath, they love to spread their lips as wide as possible, and blow like the devil. Unfortunately, this doesn't afford any real range or endurance potential.

So instead of doing that, work on practicing EVERYTHING at pianissimo, and with as little mouthpiece pressure as possible. The ONLY way to do that is to not spread your lips apart in the mouthpiece. Your chops must be touching each other when you start to play. The air will form the aperture, not the rim of the mouthpiece pinning the lips open. When you first do this, your mouthpiece will feel a LOT smaller...but this is the sensation you want.

It's not WHAT you practice, but HOW you practice it. In this circumstance, you're trying to build a new habit with your embouchure. So whenever you practice, breath through your nose...and DO NOT stretch your mouth open to play. Play everything pianissimo, and with almost no mouthpiece pressure. This will force you to bring your lips closer to together inside the mouthpiece, which is the direction you want to go in as far as developing range and endurance.

Great post!!!

Different way of say compression not streaching.

Also a good way of explaining a closed apature.

[ducttapedgerbil]

I accidentally posted this is the wrong forum initially..

--

I play trumpet and I'm looking for a few ways to help expand my range and help my endurance. I know lip slurs help, but is there anything else that helps anyone else here with range? I can play comfortably to about a C above the staff.

Along with range help, does anyone have any ideas for endurance? Especially mid-range, it kills my lips. Does anyone else have this problem/ does anyone know how to help it?

Thanks for any help.

pedals

[ironlips]

You may want to check out xtremebrass.com for some effective etudes.

One thing I didn't see mentioned before: be careful not to overwork your chops in the interest of building them up. If you punish the muscles and bruise them they will take a considerable time to repair. Don't forget to rest during practice, lean forward and buzz very slowly (w/o the mouthpiece) to repenish the blood supply to the effected muscles. This will help you last longer.