General Effect vs. Execution

[MikeD]

i don't see the execution anymore. it's a lot different when you have a judge standing right in front of you listening for any mistakes. it made horn & drumlines alot cleaner. they could check spacing and if your feet were the same as everyone else.

The style of arrangements "back then", were written to make things appear to be cleaner, in 1970-terms.

I'll take the musical performances and arrangement of today, unless I am watching an alumni corps.

also colr presentation showed respect to the flag & country. but like everything else today drum corps has gone to the dogs.

Color pres were pro forma requirements. Things that you HAVE to do are not from the heart; they are done because you have to do them. Ever hear a bunch of little kids recite the Pledge of Allegiance? By the early 70's many corps were using faux American Flags just to avoid the chance of flag violations.

and don't tell me there's more interest today. an average show in the 60's & 70's had 10,000-15,000 peole watching.

No they did not. The top shows held in large venues had crowd like that. "Average" shows were held mostly on HS fields, many of which seated under 1,000 people, at least in NJ.

[Lucy65]

No they did not. The top shows held in large venues had crowd like that. "Average" shows were held mostly on HS fields, many of which seated under 1,000 people, at least in NJ.

Those nostalgia glasses make things larger than they appear in real life.

[MikeD]

Those nostalgia glasses make things larger than they appear in real life.

Remember the guy with the portable lights...he had his generator truck set up in the endzone chugging away to provide some relatively dim lighting to a portion of the field.

Often the light truck chugga-chugga was louder than some of the horn lines, esp backfield moves! :)

I think the guy...or at least his truck...is still around. I see the same sort of thing at HS football games in my area when schools don't have lights and want to hiost a "Friday Night Lights" kind of game. In fact, my local HS (I am the MB wind/percussion arranger) hires him every year.

[Lucy65]

Remember the guy with the portable lights...he had his generator truck set up in the endzone chugging away to provide some relatively dim lighting to a portion of the field.

Often the light truck chugga-chugga was louder than some of the horn lines, esp backfield moves! :)

I think the guy...or at least his truck...is still around. I see the same sort of thing at HS football games in my area when schools don't have lights and want to hiost a "Friday Night Lights" kind of game. In fact, my local HS (I am the MB wind/percussion arranger) hires him every year.

I remember those lights.

Do you know I heard the cicadas here(Chicago) for the next month or so have been known to drown out musical performances? This I have got to see...........

[donincardona]

well i must have been in many big contests because most were not held in high school stadiums. most had 1000's of people attending. yes some small venues had a generator but most were held in godd sized stadiums. baltimore memorial, hershey park, barnum festival, aquinas stadium, syracuse macarthur pk, even hamilton canada was a cfl stadium.

as far as the musical arrangements , i don't know where you get the idea they were arranged to sound clean:eg hamburg kingsman, westhoreman bonnie scotts,erie thunderbirds, getsville suburban knights. they didn't sound clean to me. the horn arrangers back then had to convert all the misc from 3 valves to a valve & rotor which was difficult to do. today they just take the scores and copy them.guy's like hy drietzer, joe genero, corky fabrizio were great arrangers. don't take away there greatnes on a whim

let's talk about percussion. 1st the snares in use today are very small and have no projection. they don't even sound like a snare. nobody is using a rudimental drumline anymore.......it's all riky tiky for lack of a better word. the rielly raider alumni drumline almost disbanded because the corps director wanted to drop rudimental drumming. he changed his mind after a lot of discussion. rudimental drumming is a very difficalt style of drumming......i know as i was a drummer for many years.

i will say the drills being used today are a lot more complex today althought i did like when we started on the starting line and left via the finish line. and back then we did company fronts which is difficult .

i don't use nastalgia glasses.....my memorie is very sharp thank you very much. just don't knock the old days. those were great times. ^OO^ ^OO^ ^OO^ ^OO^

[MikeD]

well i must have been in many big contests because most were not held in high school stadiums. most had 1000's of people attending. yes some small venues had a generator but most were held in godd sized stadiums. baltimore memorial, hershey park, barnum festival, aquinas stadium, syracuse macarthur pk, even hamilton canada was a cfl stadium.

Never said that all shows were held in small HS stadiums, just that in a 25-30 show season MOST were.

as far as the musical arrangements , i don't know where you get the idea they were arranged to sound clean:eg hamburg kingsman, westhoreman bonnie scotts,erie thunderbirds, getsville suburban knights. they didn't sound clean to me.

The style of arranging back in the day was not the same as more modern times. Charts had more hard 'edges' on them than today. It wasn't easy to clean, but the charts were written with that in mind. It's the way it was in that era.

the horn arrangers back then had to convert all the misc from 3 valves to a valve & rotor which was difficult to do. today they just take the scores and copy them.guy's like hy drietzer, joe genero, corky fabrizio were great arrangers. don't take away there greatnes on a whim

Who is taking anything away from the arrangers of the past? They did wonderful things. But don't go and disparage those of today to try and falsely pump up those arrangers. They do not 'just take the scores and copy them'...no more today than yesterday.

BTW...arranging then, as today, was far more than converting "all the misc from 3 valves to a valve & rotor". That makes it seem so pedestrian and simplistic.

let's talk about percussion. 1st the snares in use today are very small and have no projection. they don't even sound like a snare. nobody is using a rudimental drumline anymore.......it's all riky tiky for lack of a better word.

Rudimental drumming is alive and well in DCI/DCA/WGI/BOA/USSBA/etc....that is about as wrong a statement as I ever run across.

the rielly raider alumni drumline almost disbanded because the corps director wanted to drop rudimental drumming. he changed his mind after a lot of discussion. rudimental drumming is a very difficalt style of drumming......i know as i was a drummer for many years.

As am I...started in grade 4 in 1962. Started in a feeder corps in 64. No one said rudimental drumming is easy.

[Jimbalaya]

I disagree with that statement.......at no time did any director or staff person ever want to do away with rudimental drumming. The repertoire craved rudiments......in varied and exciting time signatures to complement the entire musical program.......there was an attempt to augment the percussion instrumentation which fell on deaf ears.....the 'drummers wanted to play old parts the old way.....they didn't even practice with the horns.......a sad and very sore spot with me.

Put the blame where the blame belongs

Jimbalaya

. the rielly raider alumni drumline almost disbanded because the corps director wanted to drop rudimental drumming. he changed his mind after a lot of discussion. rudimental drumming is a very difficalt style of drumming......i know as i was a drummer for many years.

i

[Piper]

Well I'll be the first and probably show my age AND inclination. I started in the Jr's in 67 and was active all but one year till 81. I started with a company front on the left side line ending with a front on the right sideline. My last year was mid field yet back field to start and mid field to 50 front to end. I went from 2 to 6 man "squads" in formations with 3 required company fronts somewhere in the 13 minute show..to the "cirvalinear" beginnings of the 80's. I was taught RESPECT for the American flag and presenting it somewhere in the show requireing a drill instructor to CAREFULLY build a show around it.....to seeing it posted in the right hand corner to be ignored for the entire show. Of course now it's not even a requirement to bring it onto the field!!. I experinced horns with slides and rotor's mandating that arrangers transpose popular/secular music to the keys and restrictions they required...to doing nothing more than bringing orchestra horns onto a field that for generations showed the talent and inginuity of said arrangers with the afformentioned horns and allowed them to just use ordinary arrangements requireing little transposing. I remember a time when you could leave a show and sing every corps repertoire and know each corps by the style they played. Today after hearing the first 3 corps you've heard them all. I could go on...but the bottom line is that the the transition from the "Drum and Fife" corps to the "Drum and Bugle Corps" which really took place in the 30's has been lost and thrown away to be replaced with what we have today....nothing more than a glorified "college band" program which has ABANDONED execution and totally embraced theatrical, visual, "general effect" showmanship. You say "brother Dave...what the hell are you talking about?"...I was PRIVILEDGED to be a member of the front line of the "Yankee Rebels" percussion section of 1975. Reynolds judged both DCA and DCI finals that year. The week before DCA he judged Santa Clara who did a 4 tick execution show. We did a 6 tick execution show and for those who remember that night....when the gun went off he raised his clip board but remained on the field and stayed with the percussion section till the final note. He later told John Flowers that he wanted to see if we maintained the level of excellence to the very end. He stated to John that if there was a Jr/Sr corps capable of a "perfect" execution show....Santa Clara and Yankee Rebels was the two corps. Both took top GE.

Brothers and sisters I say all this to lament the loss of "center" I think Drum Corps has risen to. It has gone from a "quasi military" organization with emphasis on execution to nothing more than a glorified high school/college band format. I'm not saying I can't appreciate the difficulty of the arrangements but we've lost the very distinctiveness that separated us from the bands. There's a "difficulty" in having to arrange music in keys that slide/rotor bugles can play. There's a "difficulty" that comes with taking a 32 man percussion section and standing in a formation and "whalling" away for 32, 120, 132, etc counts and showing just how well you can execute AND give a visual general effect. There's a difficulty that comes with taking squads and formatting pictures on the field...opening up your corps to judging with company fronts, obligues, forming "pictures" that REQUIRE execution of M@M and not just undulating amaeboe type formations. Execution should BE general effect.....how in the world can a military organization like a drum corp take high general effect AND NOT execution? How in the hell can a horn line take top horns when every attack and release is sounds like a machine gun? What's the difference in the other captions? I don't care how many points you give execution vs general effect.....if you can't execute than your GE should suffer accordingly.

In closing I address those of us over 50....you may or not be still active. Search the memory banks and go back to an era when you stood inspection. When part of competing meant taking pride in uniform and equipment and making sure it was ready to stand inspection. Remember a time when color guard CAPTAIN, when Drum MAJOR, when horn, drum, CAPTAIN actually meant something and DEMANDED respect and compliance. When marching in the HONOR GUARD was an important part of corps and show and COULD cost you the show if a major mistake was made. When your most memorable moments of a show was during the color pre and the whole stadium stood up and went berserk as you presented the colors and played music that exalted this great country. THAT is what Drum Corps was...and is supposed to be about. Any organization that has it's roots in a military format CAN NOT separate execution from general effect. Execution IS general effect....if not than your just a "show corps"...........in my humble opinion.

Roger that. Ditto.

[donincardona]

I disagree with that statement.......at no time did any director or staff person ever want to do away with rudimental drumming. The repertoire craved rudiments......in varied and exciting time signatures to complement the entire musical program.......there was an attempt to augment the percussion instrumentation which fell on deaf ears.....the 'drummers wanted to play old parts the old way.....they didn't even practice with the horns.......a sad and very sore spot with me.

Put the blame where the blame belongs

Jimbalaya

sorry pal but i know the drum instructor personally. we talk all the time. i think i'm inclined to beleive him over you. i've know him for 40 years. i don't know what your talking about. this is a sore spot with me. on this i blame you

[Fran Haring]

i don't see the execution anymore. it's a lot different when you have a judge standing right in front of you listening for any mistakes. it made horn & drumlines alot cleaner.

I'll agree to disagree with you on this.

I think the "tick" system from back in the day could be as subjective as the current buildup system. One judge's idea of an error was another judge's idea of acceptable playing or marching.

I enjoyed listening to the corps during the era when I got my start in drum corps.... and I still enjoy listening to the old recordings, or hearing the current alumni corps re-create that era. Great stuff... and I wish more of today's current crop of drum corps participants would "give a listen" to that era and appreciate what those corps did with "kids off the street" and the relatively primitive instruments of those days.

But honestly, any number of hornlines and drumlines from this current era are easily as "clean" as anything from any other period in drum corps, if not more so. Two examples that come immediately to mind from last year are DCI's Carolina Crown and DCA's Bushwackers.... both had absolutely stellar brass sections.

Fran