Olympics

[Texas]

QUOTE(Piper @ May 9 2007, 11:40 PM)

Man, you brought up a good point that I've been thinking about for quite a while. The main difference between their judging system and ours, is that ALL of their judges on the panel are judging the SAME THING. They don't have adjudicators who specialize like we do. That's why I think that Drum Corps' judging system is so much better.

Couldn't agree more. Granted, Drum Corps inherently comes with far more detail than something such as figure skating or ice dancing. Since there are 100 plus people in mulitple sections doing umpteen different things, vs. judging what one or two people are doing, but the judging division sets it up for a much more level playing ground.

The judging systems for both of these activities are the way they are mainly because of the activity itself. There's so much stuff in a drum corps and marching band show that needs to be broken up into their own sub-category. You really can't say the same about figure skating and gymnastics. So that's why the judging system naturally has it that way for those other activities.

I would even argue that the judging systems for figure skating and gymnastics are better than DCI. From what I understand (I may be wrong), the judging in figure skating and gymnastics not only is subjective, but it also relys on definite factors such as that they are required to do a flip or a turn. If they fail at something specific, then its like 1 point off or if they do something well they get a certain numbers of points added... and this is well defined beforehand. In DCI that's not much of a case as I believe nearly everything is just subjective. They don't have a well defined system that says like "one point off total score per marching member that falls down" or "1 point added if corps volume exceeds over 120 dB". The closest DCI gets to something like this are the penalties. This is also one of the main reasons why I truly don't believe drum corps is classified as a "sport". But that's another issue.

But either way, if you're saying Drum corps should be an olympic event because the judging system is "better" than figure skating, then sorry but there has to be much better reasons than this should we expect the Olympic committee or whoever to except DCI into the game. I'm not a hater as I would also love to drum corps in the games but that's how I realisticlly see it.

Also something I just thought of, every 4 years the Summer Olympics are held during.... well the summer of course and if the best players from the best corps participate in that then how would that affect DCI and member corps in general for that same summer? Just another logistical thing to consider.

[silvertrombone]

But either way, if you're saying Drum corps should be an olympic event because the judging system is "better" than figure skating, then sorry but there has to be much better reasons than this should we expect the Olympic committee or whoever to except DCI into the game. I'm not a hater as I would also love to drum corps in the games but that's how I realisticlly see it.

Also something I just thought of, every 4 years the Summer Olympics are held during.... well the summer of course and if the best players from the best corps participate in that then how would that affect DCI and member corps in general for that same summer? Just another logistical thing to consider.

I see no reason not to adopt something similar to figure skating scoring or gymnastics scoring if DC were to go Olympic.

6.0 scale, 1.0 for each of 6 different aspects of the performance, several judges (6-8), each judge judging every aspect. Drop the high/low score, and Voila!

In case any of you weren't aware, there have been a couple of occassions in history where it was believed that a gold medalist was favored by a certain judge, or one judge had it out for one athlete. Politics are omnipresent in the International realm, and the Olympics are not immune. Someone would get jipped and there would be cries of unfairness, etc. Then the world would move on and the next Olympics that group would place differently.

Oh, and by comparison, the DC competitions really wouldn't take up that much time. Many of the sports in track and field don't start up until week 2, so the main stadium sits vacant for much of the first week. Do the DC competitions during week 1 when the pool is the focus. You really only need 2-3 dates for performances, and only about 3 hours each if you have only 8 of so qualify for the Olympics.

Olympics were in September recently, weren't they? So DCI does it's thing, auditions are held at Championships, practices commence the next week or so, and run through the Olympics. If that conflicts, use age-outs from 21 to 25 as someone else suggested.

[Piper]

Figure Skating certainly isn't Drum Corps, but there's no reason that I can see why the judging format shouldn't be more diversified : Execution, Technique, General effect, Difficulty, etc. etc. with different judges assigned to each caption, and then tally up the final score when all is said and done. Sound familiar? :)

[DutchCousin]

Olympics were in September recently, weren't they? So DCI does it's thing, auditions are held at Championships, practices commence the next week or so, and run through the Olympics. If that conflicts, use age-outs from 21 to 25 as someone else suggested.

DCE has finals in september.

I didn't mean to offend baseball fans in my earlier post, I'd love for baseball to be back on the Olympic program, but they took it of the program for a reason, and it wasn't because it wasn't entertaining enough. And yes I do know about the Latin American baseball schools. But let's not get too far of topic.

I've read all the posts in this thread, and I really like the idea of a more international event. Some of the suggestions made are really good and very realistic. But I still think the IOC would not be open to adding drum corps to their already (in their opinion) too crowded program.

[madscout96]

The judging systems for both of these activities are the way they are mainly because of the activity itself. There's so much stuff in a drum corps and marching band show that needs to be broken up into their own sub-category. You really can't say the same about figure skating and gymnastics. So that's why the judging system naturally has it that way for those other activities.

I would even argue that the judging systems for figure skating and gymnastics are better than DCI. From what I understand (I may be wrong), the judging in figure skating and gymnastics not only is subjective, but it also relys on definite factors such as that they are required to do a flip or a turn. If they fail at something specific, then its like 1 point off or if they do something well they get a certain numbers of points added... and this is well defined beforehand. In DCI that's not much of a case as I believe nearly everything is just subjective. They don't have a well defined system that says like "one point off total score per marching member that falls down" or "1 point added if corps volume exceeds over 120 dB". The closest DCI gets to something like this are the penalties. This is also one of the main reasons why I truly don't believe drum corps is classified as a "sport". But that's another issue.

But either way, if you're saying Drum corps should be an olympic event because the judging system is "better" than figure skating, then sorry but there has to be much better reasons than this should we expect the Olympic committee or whoever to except DCI into the game. I'm not a hater as I would also love to drum corps in the games but that's how I realisticlly see it.

Agreed. Drum Corps isn't a sport. It might have been closer to being a sport when we had ticks.

Also something I just thought of, every 4 years the Summer Olympics are held during.... well the summer of course and if the best players from the best corps participate in that then how would that affect DCI and member corps in general for that same summer? Just another logistical thing to consider.

Well there's always tons of kids who try out for div. I corps that don't make it so they don't march anywhere. There's a big pool of talent to draw from. If every 4th summer you had a "Team USA" drum corps, that would be one more prestigious corps that would be an option to people (Americans). The DCI corps wouldn't have a problem filling out their ranks at all, even if they lost a few vets to their national corps.

Edited May 10, 2007 by madscout96

[madscout96]

I see no reason not to adopt something similar to figure skating scoring or gymnastics scoring if DC were to go Olympic....

Hmmm... I'm not sure how the IOC would like this. Using a completely different set of rules for the Olympics? It's almost like "inventing" a sport just for the sake of having it at the Olympics. It's not the same as basketball using international rules (instead of NBA or NCAA rules) for the Olympics. International rules are used in every international basketball tournament, as far as I know (where the have the 3-point line shorter than the NBA's, and they use that trapezoidal lane, etc.) Are there any drum corps circuits in the world that use a scoring system that's as objective as figure skating or gymnastics?

[madscout96]

C'mon, guys--this is a CREATIVE activity! Put that creativity to use. Good topic.

I still think the Olympics aren't feasable because 1.drum corps isn't enough of a sport, due to it's subjective scoring, 2.logistical issues dealing with the size of each nation's "team". But perhaps a "World Cup of drum corps" event or something like that might be possible. It's not the Olympics, but it still might get attention because people do love rooting for their country. Are there any other marching music competitions where units directly represent their country?

OK here's my "World Cup of drum corps" idea. Each country has 1 corps. So you could have USA, Canada, UK, The Netherlands, Germany, Japan, China, maybe S. Korea, anyone else? Participants must be AMATEURS, no professionals. Limit membership to 100 or less. Smaller corps means smaller countries have a better chance. Championship takes place in the fall, so that fans aren't drawn away from the circuits that compete in the summer. They could do a tour for a few weeks and then have a prelims-finals in one city to culminate things. Obviously if it's in the fall, you'd have to work around football schedules for stadium use, but these days with so many stadiums going with the artificial fieldturf that won't be that difficult. Or maybe it could be done in the spring instead? But then we might struggle to get guard people since WGI would be going on.

Edited May 10, 2007 by madscout96

[madscout96]

Imagine DCI being TRULY international every 4 years. It doesn't necessarily have to be part of the Olympics as a sport. However, if it were done properly, many corps would have performance opportunities throughout the games. Consider that Olympics are rarely held in just one city. The games also include the outlying towns and villages for their sporting venues. If DCI were to partner with the IOC or sponsors of the Games, maybe the finals could be televised in part, or in it's entirety. Corps would not have to be a member of DCI to compete, which means, corps from the US and around the world could prepare strictly for an international championship without touring should they choose to do so.

DCI could also set up a mini tour in the Olympic host country and surrounding areas. This mini tour could also be used as qualifying rounds in order to make finals. I'm sure a few things would have to change in order to pull this off.

1) American corps would have to go back to a style that's more for the general public. Where one doesn't need a music degree in order to appreciate the music that is being presented.

2) Visual demand would require more of a mix instead of running at 200+ for 12 minutes non stop.

3) Change age-out limit to 25 on Olympic years in order to be uniform with other International Circuits.

Let's face it...... this would be a tremendous marketing opportunity on a global scale. It only stands to reason that you would want as many corps as possible to be top 6 caliber corps (LIKE ALL OF THEM!!!). Corporate sponsorship would be more readily available because of the exposure created by the Olympics. This should keep membership dues at a reasonable level for all corps.

I'm not sure how much exposure drum corps could get if they did all this at the Olympics without actually being one of the Olympic events. The Olympics are full of different events going on for 16 days in one city and its surrounding area. Having some corps perform here and there might barely get noticed.

[sburstall]

Imagine DCI being TRULY international every 4 years. It doesn't necessarily have to be part of the Olympics as a sport. However, if it were done properly, many corps would have performance opportunities throughout the games. Consider that Olympics are rarely held in just one city. The games also include the outlying towns and villages for their sporting venues. If DCI were to partner with the IOC or sponsors of the Games, maybe the finals could be televised in part, or in it's entirety. Corps would not have to be a member of DCI to compete, which means, corps from the US and around the world could prepare strictly for an international championship without touring should they choose to do so.

DCI could also set up a mini tour in the Olympic host country and surrounding areas. This mini tour could also be used as qualifying rounds in order to make finals. I'm sure a few things would have to change in order to pull this off.

1) American corps would have to go back to a style that's more for the general public. Where one doesn't need a music degree in order to appreciate the music that is being presented.

I would agree there. Joe Smoe sitting in his barcalounger could care less about programming of the show. They want to be entertained and that means using some well known, popular music in the show.

2) Visual demand would require more of a mix instead of running at 200+ for 12 minutes non stop.

If you look at the other events like ice skating there is a mix of required moves. I seriously think to this day that DCI needs to go this route, but that's a different and beaten down topic.

3) Change age-out limit to 25 on Olympic years in order to be uniform with other International Circuits.

Don't see this happening. There have been Olypians in their 40s who have competed. There is no age cut-off. If you can do the event well enough to get in the age is irrelavent. I guess the big difference is that this International Circuit would have to be a professional group (they get paid) instead of group of amatures (they pay to march).

Let's face it...... this would be a tremendous marketing opportunity on a global scale. It only stands to reason that you would want as many corps as possible to be top 6 caliber corps (LIKE ALL OF THEM!!!). Corporate sponsorship would be more readily available because of the exposure created by the Olympics. This should keep membership dues at a reasonable level for all corps.

Agreed, much like how American football and hockey are becoming international events.

[rut-roh]

Maybe it's just me (wouldn't be the first time), but I think an activity like indoor color guard would stand a FAR better chance at making it into the Olympics than drum corps does. And even that chance is slim.