SCV and BD

[84skyrydr]

Geez!...Tough crowd. These kids just got together full time and you (the audience) want a final 'product.' Give them a break. They are working on it!

Many of these young people go to school and work jobs right up until early June. When summer break comes around they dedicate their lives and a lot of money to this gig. They are an incredible breed. Many of you who marched were the same. Frankly, if I were a current MM and was reading all of this stuff I wouldn't care less. I would just march and play my ... off and love it the whole way through.

Ticket prices are usually compatible with the stage of the season. Last weekend prices were in the $15 to $20 range here in California. I don't know about everyone else who was there, but I feel like I got my monies worth. Remember that this is called the "drum corps season." It evolves and if you choose to, you can participate and watch it the whole way. Or....you can continue to complain about whatever floats your boat that day. Rock on!

GO BLUE DEVILS!

Not a final product but a complete product. Absolutely. Especially when the judging teams DON'T follow rules that are established and assess penalties. That just makes it completely unfair to those corps that do finish a product and put it out on the field for the first show. If they keep NOT assessing those penalties then every year there will be less and less complete shows. I don't EVER blame the members, they are following their instructions. It starts at the top.

[skluyuk]

Not a final product but a complete product. Absolutely. Especially when the judging teams DON'T follow rules that are established and assess penalties. That just makes it completely unfair to those corps that do finish a product and put it out on the field for the first show. If they keep NOT assessing those penalties then every year there will be less and less complete shows. I don't EVER blame the members, they are following their instructions. It starts at the top.

I dunno...having seen the west coast shows, I don't think the average fan will even realize they haven't seen a complete product unless there is a very obvious gap. Honestly, I didn't think it was that bad at all. Pretty much all of the crowd center section were giving the corps a standing ovation. I get the impression that this debate is more about score than anything else. That's insider stuff. If the judges are consistent at all of the shows in applying (or not applying) the rules, it's really no harm, no foul.

[84skyrydr]

I dunno...having seen the west coast shows, I don't think the average fan will even realize they haven't seen a complete product unless there is a very obvious gap. Honestly, I didn't think it was that bad at all. Pretty much all of the crowd center section were giving the corps a standing ovation. I get the impression that this debate is more about score than anything else. That's insider stuff. If the judges are consistent at all of the shows in applying (or not applying) the rules, it's really no harm, no foul.

But it is a lot of harm and completely foul. The penalties are there for a reason. It isn't that hard to assess them. Like I said earlier, if it is a regular thing it will become common place and NOBODY will have any incentive to complete a show, until the judges actually start assessing those penalties. As far as the scores, I couldn't care less. I don't have a care in the world on who "wins", just have it be an honest victory, I enjoy all the shows, so truthfully I WIN at every show. Rules are there for a reason and all the big dogs that voted them in are the ones who are in fact violating them. Whats next, marching 200 members at the beginning of the year and only keeping the ones you want when the judges start penalizing you for the overage? Where does it end?

[gellio]

But it is a lot of harm and completely foul. The penalties are there for a reason. It isn't that hard to assess them. Like I said earlier, if it is a regular thing it will become common place and NOBODY will have any incentive to complete a show, until the judges actually start assessing those penalties. As far as the scores, I couldn't care less. I don't have a care in the world on who "wins", just have it be an honest victory, I enjoy all the shows, so truthfully I WIN at every show. Rules are there for a reason and all the big dogs that voted them in are the ones who are in fact violating them. Whats next, marching 200 members at the beginning of the year and only keeping the ones you want when the judges start penalizing you for the overage? Where does it end?

It's doesn't matter. BD and SCV were judged fairly against their competition and each other. So what if their shows aren't done? If another top corps was there that had a complete show, maybe they would have won. Maybe what SCV and BD have on the field IS more complete than anyone else. May their 9 minutes is more complete than another corps 10.5 minutes. I don't know. I haven't seen everyone and either have you. Maybe they don't have much filler in what they have on the field. Don't forget, both of these corps came out the first weekend. Again, you don't know their shows are any further from their final product, then say Bluecoats, Phantom, Cavies or Cadets. Just because one corps show may clock in longer than another's doesn't mean their show is any more complete.

I think you're off base about no one having an incentive to complete a show. That is an utmost necessity to being competitive as the season progresses. I also think you're over-reacting a bit. Has this ever been an issue when all the corps have met up? No. Never. It's looking like both SCV and BD will be in the hunt throughout the season.

Edited June 20, 2007 by gellio

[84skyrydr]

I stand by my statements. Check to see who actually voted the time rule into place and then see who has the incomplete shows.The rules are there, ENFORCE them, that is all.

[gellio]

I stand by my statements. Check to see who actually voted the time rule into place and then see who has the incomplete shows.The rules are there, ENFORCE them, that is all.

You seem like you're in a fury over nothing. I don't know how long either of their shows were, but enforcing penalties against them would likely have not changed the outcome.

[Snapettes Mom]

Sunday evening in the lot SCV drum line was on fire. The goose bumps on my arms were going off like fire works as they played the show with major intensity and went into full JONEZ! mode. It's the best I have personally seen them play that well early in the season since 2004. They want it bad. Really bad. Oh yah there was major contingency of SCV alumni cymbal players watching in the lot as well. This years cymbal line is 'Navy Seal' intense. Spitting on the cymbals during the openner is a nice touch boyz.

Just to be fair.

BD's drum line is playing thier butts off and running a serious track meet on the field. Luv the Winter line moves in the opener, "6 stroke roll extraveganza". Hoofing it in and out of the hornline is sic to watch and hear.

Mom

Edited June 20, 2007 by Snapettes Mom

[randomnoise]

I stand by my statements. Check to see who actually voted the time rule into place and then see who has the incomplete shows.The rules are there, ENFORCE them, that is all.

There is no conspiracy (or rule that I know of) - DCI and show sponsors just don't hire T&P judges for the early season shows. Perhaps they should - talk to your local corps directors and suggest it. One thing you are correct about - if there was a penalty, corps would definitely work harder to get their shows done on time.

[skluyuk]

But it is a lot of harm and completely foul. The penalties are there for a reason. It isn't that hard to assess them. Like I said earlier, if it is a regular thing it will become common place and NOBODY will have any incentive to complete a show, until the judges actually start assessing those penalties. As far as the scores, I couldn't care less. I don't have a care in the world on who "wins", just have it be an honest victory, I enjoy all the shows, so truthfully I WIN at every show. Rules are there for a reason and all the big dogs that voted them in are the ones who are in fact violating them. Whats next, marching 200 members at the beginning of the year and only keeping the ones you want when the judges start penalizing you for the overage? Where does it end?

I'm not arguing with you about the rules. I agree that they are in place for a reason and maybe DCI needs to elaborate on how/when this particular one will be enforced. However...I think your expectation is rather high for the corps right out of the gate. To say that there is a lot of harm is an exaggeration (IMO). What is the harm? Who is harmed? Frankly, the corps today are waaaayyy better prepared and farther ahead than we were in the June 16th timeframe of the early 80's. I'm not sure about Skyriders, but Valley Fever went to the Exhibition with maybe 60% of the drill complete in '82. Only slightly better in '83. Can't really remember where we were at with '84 BD, but we surely weren't done. A week beyond that though, we were done and beginning the clean and tweak process.

A week makes a huge difference in the early season. Everyone is onboard and running full days, right? Before that, it's just camps and such. The staff does not have your full attention from day to day. When they get it, that's when the magic begins.

From what you have written above, I understand that this perturbs you, and that's cool. But, based on history, I'm pretty confident that corps are not going to exceed the bounds of acceptable practice. The level of preparation is consistent (better imo) with probably every year in the history of DCI. Go to a show this weekend and see if my presumption is correct.

Beyond that, give the kids the appreciation they deserve. You were there in the past. Remember the chill you get when you are standing in formation ready to go on and all of you senses are peaked and you are pumped up for your show? Remember barely being able to contain yourself during warmups to the backfiled? Remember thinking "Kick ...!!!" to yourself as the drum major saluted the crowd? Remember those 'hits' that stood out in your show and you couldn't wait to get to so you could hear the crowd roar in approval? Remember working your bu tt off improve your show so you could beat your competitors? Remember...? Dang it! I love drum corps! ^OO^

[SF2K4]

If they keep NOT assessing those penalties then every year there will be less and less complete shows.

I've said it before and I'll say it again... why would members who've paid a ton of money and won't to work hard this summer to make a great product as well as staffs that want to do the same put out a less complete show? That's not fun for them, either.