Modern Guard Out of Hand or Out of the World?

[Guest GeorgeD]

I love the art of the modern guard... but I also respect and appreciate the old traditional-style guard as well.  Comparing them is really like comparing apples and oranges.  I remember the 27th Lancers and their oh so precise guard.  And the old Phantom "Rockford File" moves.  Those things always brought crowds to their feet.  Last season, Boston & Cavaliers put some old style 50 yardline file work and equipment exchanges into their programs, and the crowds ate them up.  In '95, perhaps the biggest crowd response to any guard was Cadets old style rifle work during the final push of their show.

So I ask:

Does the use of a lot of dance and individual equipment work in a huge stadium make sense?  Or our we trying to create a "WGI Guard" with brass & percussion live soundtrack???  Have we basically thrown out the good ideas of the past in an attempt to "innovate" or is everything better today???

My point-you are on the top deck at Madison, section FF--does 8 individuals doing 4 different sets of work on tiny sabres, some facing the rear of the field, make sense???  Sure-this approach works great on a guard tarp when the audience is 40 feet away... but how well does this modern guard approach translate to the field?  

And dance-to make dance affective on a football field, you have to super-simplify the dance moves to the extent that members end up looking more like mimes that the talented young performers they are.  And again, coordinated dance moves for a bunch of performers can carry well to the 30 yard lines, but does the individual work lose effect?  Are the modern guard performers well trained enough in dance to look good at what they do???  How well are they being trained in dance during the season???

Should we take the best of modern guard and combine it with the coordination and precision of the past??? Has the pendulum  swung too far?  Or is this the best it's ever been?  Guard has grown so much as an activity, the corps are getting the most talented new members every-with dance and equipment skills unreal compared to even ten or fifteen years ago.  However, are todays' designers doing these members a disservice by trying to recreate an indoor guard type show on a 100 yard football field?

The people in section FF want to know.

[GMichael1230]

I think we are sacrificing Technique, and execution for expression and individuality.

The colorguard is supposed to enhance the story that the brass and percussion are trying to tell.

Colorguard today on the field is out of hand from a design standpoint....Uniforms, for one, are disappointing at best, and do nothing to enhance the performer, or the section as a whole.

Sabres do NOT work on the field....unless it is done clean, and very pronounced....as George stated, four sets of varying work just doesnt do it, it actually takes away from the total mood the show is (hopefully) trying to create.

Rifle lines are dancing too much, and doing it (dancing) just for the sake of dancing.....timing and release need to be practiced more, or demanded more by the staff and writers.

Nothing is more appealing than equipment work done in unison...half the reason the "modern" approach doesnt work well with some "older' fans is the fact that it isnt executed well.

Drum corps fans as a whole want to see snap, precision, and execution....Heck, you could do just about anything, as long as it is done in unison.

Too many corps rely on the actual silks(flags) for the effect rather than the desired effect achieved by spinning and executing...GE not only comes from color, but from content, quality, and execution.

Dance troupes do not sell a show, there is certainly a place for it, but imagine a line of 30 people dancing and tossing at the same time, and actually catching what they throw up in the air ???

There can be a happy medium, there is a place for both.....The main problem that needs to be addressed is simply basic...EXECUTION. the rest will follow.

Geoffrey

[PioneerLeadSop]

I think one thing about todays guards that is so much better than the old school guards is the ability to make their movements and equipment work look more natural.  Old guards look so stiff.  Personally i would rather watch a guard thats a little dirty if they are preforming the #### outta the show.

[Victoria_R]

Okay, people in section FF, you hit on my pet peeve...

The "old guard" was designed as a unit.  The "new guard" is designed as a bunch of individuals that may sometimes do the some movements in unison.

I watched the rerun of the 2001 DCI championships a few weeks ago and it bugged me that the guard was not integrated into the corps drill and design.  Frequently the guard was off to one side or the back and doing their own thing.  The "old guard" may have danced at times but they could and did march in more involved drills.

Also the "old guard" had a wider range of technique with one piece of equipment because the tall flag line or rifle line did the entire show with that piece of equipment.  The tall flag equipment work has particularly become limited as the flags got shorter and swapping equipment became popular.  And I get the impression that "being on flag" is not as cool as "being on rifle or sabre".

Although on the field a flag is the most visible and if there is an error in a unison section, everybody knows it.  The "old guard" flag line used to "clean" for hours just matching angles, tempos, etc.  And during a slow section of flag work, it becomes very evident if one person has a hand even an inch or two off because the flag tip is a foot off.  (Is this why I don't see much slow or moderate tempo flag work anymore?  With fast tempos, it's easier to miss these details.)

I went to a DCI show last summer and was stunned that what had been prime seats for the audience were virtually deserted.  Most of the audience had chosen to sit near the field; it used to be that one tried to get "50 yard as high as possible" in order to see the drill and overall effect.

[LisaLisaMoMeesa]

Something has struck me in this thread....it's not "old guard v. new guard".  I've seen PLENTY of sloppy old guards, just as I see PLENTY of clean new guards.  I really think one shouldn't ask themselves if they like new guard v. old guard, just weather they appreciate ANY guard that takes the time to be clean and precise.  Look at Cadets.  They're "new guard" but amaze me, as well as many "old farts" time and again.  People like to point to old guards such as 27, Madison, etc....but there's times when they've been sloppy too.  It's a matter of how persistant the guard instructor wants to be in demanding clean work.  

I personally do not think sabres belong on a field. Even if you had 50 guard people in a block..it still isn't visual.  I think we're in an era where you (as a visual designer/guard instructor) can try new things.  Some things work, and some things don't.

I've looked back over the years of guards I've choreographed...there's some stuff I say "What the #### was I thinking?????"

I just really don't think it's old v. new.

[GMichael1230]

I think one thing about todays guards that is so much better than the old school guards is the ability to make their movements and equipment work look more natural.  Old guards look so stiff.  Personally i would rather watch a guard thats a little dirty if they are preforming the #### outta the show.

There is obviously a lack of technique, and skill if someone is performing the #### out of their show and they are doing it dirty, and sloppy....it is also not the "best it could be" ,and the effect is lost........anyone can do it dirty, but not everyone can do it clean.

Geoffrey

Messy and out of sync' doesn't look natural, it looks messy and out of sync'

[GMichael1230]

Something has struck me in this thread....it's not "old guard v. new guard".  I've seen PLENTY of sloppy old guards, just as I see PLENTY of clean new guards.  I really think one shouldn't ask themselves if they like new guard v. old guard, just weather they appreciate ANY guard that takes the time to be clean and precise.  Look at Cadets.  They're "new guard" but amaze me, as well as many "old farts" time and again.  People like to point to old guards such as 27, Madison, etc....but there's times when they've been sloppy too.  It's a matter of how persistant the guard instructor wants to be in demanding clean work.  

I personally do not think sabres belong on a field. Even if you had 50 guard people in a block..it still isn't visual.  I think we're in an era where you (as a visual designer/guard instructor) can try new things.  Some things work, and some things don't.

I've looked back over the years of guards I've choreographed...there's some stuff I say "What the #### was I thinking?????"

I just really don't think it's old v. new.

I totally agree...It isn't an "old vs new" argument. Cadets, BD, Cavies, Crown..and many others should be commended for their continuation of implementation of technique and execution.

Like I said earlier, you could spin and toss just about anything, and if it's done clean...it will look and BE good !!

Geoffrey

[PioneerLeadSop]

I think one thing about todays guards that is so much better than the old school guards is the ability to make their movements and equipment work look more natural.  Old guards look so stiff.  Personally i would rather watch a guard thats a little dirty if they are preforming the #### outta the show.

There is obviously a lack of technique, and skill if someone is performing the #### out of their show and they are doing it dirty, and sloppy....it is also not the "best it could be" ,and the effect is lost........anyone can do it dirty, but not everyone can do it clean.

Geoffrey

Messy and out of sync' doesn't look natural, it looks messy and out of sync'

As a member of colorguard for 11 years, beginning in 1991 and continuing through to my age out in 2001, and still teaching to the present I have been involved in both old school guard and new school guard.

With this history I can truthfully say that it takes very little effort and very little talent to spin slams and drop spins crisply and cleanly.  I was able to do that at age 11.  So many people are saying on here that they hate to see so many talented guard members wasting their talent doing work that can't be seen and that isn't effective because of the added drama and dance.  

I think that it would be a waste of talent to force guard members to do slams, spins, and angle exercises.  

I am embarrased when I see colorguards portrayed on television as the majorettes who did slams in parades along with the marching band.

What we are today is something so much more worth shouting about.  Although we couldn't be this developed without the history of the organizations and although technique and training is vital I truly believe that colorguard in the best form is a unit that utilizes those techniques and training in order to put on a "show" for the audience.  

A group that is able to use cleanliness to their advantage while at the same time truly selling the entire package is the group that wins in my book.

In all I just have to say that I could spin with technique at age 11 but it took me many years to develop the skill to use that technique and incorporate it with modern and classical dance and performance techniques in order to offer something truly enjoyable to the audience.  I reached that peak at DCI finals this year when I was able to win the Gold Medal in I and E.  

If you have the question of which is better in your mind just think about which truly makes you enjoy the experience.  Which draws you in and makes you watch.  The "old school" guards were good in their day, they were technical and precise but, they really weren't "performers" and they didn't really tell a story.  I will certainly agree that many guards today could use a lesson in precision and quality but...I think it is easy to see that this program has come so far in the past twelve  years, and there is no way that I would want to go back.

Heather McDaniel

1991-1997 Boone County High School Florence Ky.

1998-2001 Pioneer Drum and Bugle Corps

2001 DCI Individual and Ensemble Champion

2000-2002 Director/Instructor of IHSCGA state champion colorguard, Warren Central High School

[LisaLisaMoMeesa]

With this history I can truthfully say that it takes very little effort and very little talent to spin slams and drop spins crisply and cleanly

I've said it before, I'll say it again (x infinity). Work that simple (i.e slams and spins) had BETTER be clean.  Today's guards do slams and spins as a warm up.  They're called "basics".  (for a reason).  

Perhaps this is where the argument comes from.... I know today's guard could do yesteryears shows...but could the old guard do today's shows?  

Could it be that with some, the old v. new argument is based on insecurity...based on the inability to say "Wow, these kids today would kick my a##."  

(Uh oh...I'm sure I've just ###### off alot of people......)  :o)

Let me elaborate on one point. When people like GMichael say it's not a old v. new argument but a clean v. dirty argument, I can appreciate that.....because as a guard instructor, I agree with that.  He points to some very good guards of today that are clean and spin w/ technique.  He also made direct points about clarity, the readability of what the guard is doing, etc.  I felt, from reading his post that he doesn't like dirty guards.  Period.  They're not dirty because they're spinning a sabre.  They're not dirty because they're "dancing and rolling around on the ground"...they're dirty because their instructor couldn't be bothered to clean them.  That's what I got out of his opinion.  It's an opinion I can agree with and respect.

Just becuase a guard isn't wearing white boots and spinning 7 ft pole with a flag made out of heavy nylon doesn't automatically mean they suck.  There are many "old school" that make that knee jerk assessment.  

maaan, I'm cranky.... I need to go to bed!!!!   :(

[danceswithsalad]

i think that "old" guards were clean, and nice to look at. but when you look at new guards they give you a performance. they perform TO the people (or they should..) and they can connect with audiance and judges. they can take the emotion out of the crowd and use it for fuel for the best performance of their lives. and i don't think old skool guards did that as much. what are people watching anyway? a flag or the performance.