N Murphy Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 The last rifle instructor we had for 4 years left (got married and moved) and the new instructor I have hired is good, but is giving different information. Original release points: single-chest; double-shoulder; triple-neck; quad-face; 5-hairline new: single-hip; double-belly; triple-chest; quad-shoulder; 5-neck. Substantially lower than what my kids are used to. There was nothing wrong with the release points, I'm not sure why he changed them, and honestly, he didn't ask me if I minded the change (I KNOW my kids would have told him how they are different.) I want to change them to how they used to be. If you were the rifle person, would this bother you? (I'm the director. I hired *him*). he's away at DCI right now, so he's not around to discuss it with him. ***so my question is:*** What are the release points you use? thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colorguardboy86 Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 I don't think it's a very big deal at all. As long as their tosses look the same, there is definitely no "right" or "wrong" set of release points. It depends on how buzzy or lofty you want the toss to be - for example, if you want more effect from a high toss, you might loft the tosses up a bit. Also, some people don't clean release points at all because if you have someone 6'2" and someone 4'11" tossing next to each other and they both release at their neck, the toss is never going to look clean in the air. Bottom line: you want the tosses to all look the same in the air and there is no right or wrong way to achieve this. And if you hired this person to work with the rifles, you will need to trust his or her style (even if it isn't exactly the same as what you or they are used to - which it will never be) in order for them to benefit from having a rifle instructor at all. ...just my two cents. The last rifle instructor we had for 4 years left (got married and moved) and the new instructor I have hired is good, but is giving different information. Original release points: single-chest; double-shoulder; triple-neck; quad-face; 5-hairline new: single-hip; double-belly; triple-chest; quad-shoulder; 5-neck. Substantially lower than what my kids are used to. There was nothing wrong with the release points, I'm not sure why he changed them, and honestly, he didn't ask me if I minded the change (I KNOW my kids would have told him how they are different.) I want to change them to how they used to be. If you were the rifle person, would this bother you? (I'm the director. I hired *him*). he's away at DCI right now, so he's not around to discuss it with him. ***so my question is:*** What are the release points you use? thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musical_Spinner Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 That does seem low to me. What I have been taught and will teach: single: hip double: Stomach/one hand above the hip Triple: chest Quad: Parallel to the face, the free arm at the release should be a perfect L shape Five: The base of the hand should be at the hairline Six: one hand above the head Sevens and higher: Full extension It doesn't matter, except for consistency's sake the interval between the release points should be about the same distance. The last rifle instructor we had for 4 years left (got married and moved) and the new instructor I have hired is good, but is giving different information. Original release points: single-chest; double-shoulder; triple-neck; quad-face; 5-hairline new: single-hip; double-belly; triple-chest; quad-shoulder; 5-neck. Substantially lower than what my kids are used to. There was nothing wrong with the release points, I'm not sure why he changed them, and honestly, he didn't ask me if I minded the change (I KNOW my kids would have told him how they are different.) I want to change them to how they used to be. If you were the rifle person, would this bother you? (I'm the director. I hired *him*). he's away at DCI right now, so he's not around to discuss it with him. ***so my question is:*** What are the release points you use? thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quegrawks Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 You hired him, let him do his job. It may not be what you're accustomed to, but that doesn't mean it's wrong. He's at drum corps, those are probably the release points he has been doing for a long time-- or at least with his corps. As long as they can toss effectively, and they're all using the same technique, it's fine . He may be doing it to try to break bad habits that the other rifle instructor let go. Besides, why try to undermine his work in front of the kids? That's a dangerous precedent to set! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N Murphy Posted July 16, 2008 Author Share Posted July 16, 2008 I'm not trying to undermine what he has set, but in the same token, he is new to our group. He knows what he is doing is different--my kids have told him his technique is different and they have told him what they are used to--and he doesn't discuss any of the differences with me. I have been in my position for 8 years and have turned this group around. Last year he was hired as a tech to learn under the old weapons specialist, and this is his first year in an instructor standpoint. The former weapons person spun for 4 years at a very good HS, was Open class when she performed in their WG, and they had a very good marching band. I realize that there are different techniques, I am just wondering what everyone else uses for release points. We will find a happy medium for everyone's releases, and work on personalizing them for the line, and for equal heights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quegrawks Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 I'm not trying to undermine what he has set, but in the same token, he is new to our group. He knows what he is doing is different--my kids have told him his technique is different and they have told him what they are used to--and he doesn't discuss any of the differences with me. I have been in my position for 8 years and have turned this group around. Last year he was hired as a tech to learn under the old weapons specialist, and this is his first year in an instructor standpoint. The former weapons person spun for 4 years at a very good HS, was Open class when she performed in their WG, and they had a very good marching band. I realize that there are different techniques, I am just wondering what everyone else uses for release points. We will find a happy medium for everyone's releases, and work on personalizing them for the line, and for equal heights. Did you discuss with him about release points? You seem to be pointing the finger an awful lot. You might as well just fire him then. I mean, you want it done your way, so let him go and do it the way you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N Murphy Posted July 17, 2008 Author Share Posted July 17, 2008 No, no discussion of release points were discussed, and I didn't find out until yesterday that there were some changes made that the older spinners in the line don't feel comfortable with. I'm not going to fire him, I haven't had a chance to talk to him about the changes. He's very talented, and he has a lot to offer. We are just lacking in communication it seems. My purpose of asking here was to find out what common release points were, and how everyone on this forum differs on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmrobins03 Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 N Murphy I see your point. My last year of marching drum corps, we had new staff who changed weapon technique (release points, ect...). As the performer, it was very difficult to get used to and I felt like the new technique was not "correct". In the end, the weapon staff was fired 2 weeks before finals. I would talk to the instructor and the students to understand their point of view. As an instructor, I teach your original release points. single-chest; double-shoulder; triple-neck; quad-face; 5-hairline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Denzer Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 A very respected technician in this activity once told me that the true definition of good technique is that each member is doing it the same way. Technique will differ from guard to guard and from instructor to instructor. Some guards / instructors wrap thumbs on rifle some don't. Some guards / instructors release a five at their head some fully extend the arm. What matters most is that each member is using the same technique. The instructor that you hired should teach what they want the technique to look like. If you only wanted them to teach the previous instructors style you should have saved your money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N Murphy Posted July 17, 2008 Author Share Posted July 17, 2008 A very respected technician in this activity once told me that the true definition of good technique is that each member is doing it the same way. Technique will differ from guard to guard and from instructor to instructor. Some guards / instructors wrap thumbs on rifle some don't. Some guards / instructors release a five at their head some fully extend the arm. What matters most is that each member is using the same technique. The instructor that you hired should teach what they want the technique to look like. If you only wanted them to teach the previous instructors style you should have saved your money. Jeremy, I agree with your first remark. Good technique is everyone doing it the same. I don't necessarily have the need for him to teach the previous instructor's style or technique, but it would have been nice for him to tell me that how he was taught, or how he releases is different from what the kids know now. I did "talk" to him via text message today, and he said that the kids told him they weren't told specific release points, which is not true. He may have asked the first-year rifles what the release points, and I know I told them, and they probably didn't remember. We are going to work on getting tosses to be the same height, as I have some taller kids and shorter kids on the line, and they are not consistently tossing the same height. I'm still figuring out his style, and he's still figuring out mine. Pretty soon we'll be running smooothly! LOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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