skywalker

97 bones

Sure, deals will be made for woodwind instruments if it ever comes to that. But discounts do not equal FREE. These instruments are still MAJOR investments. Big money to be spent. And the added personnel and all that comes with that (stated earlier) is the BIG BIG BIG money that will keep if from happening. As for George cutting a corps, don't count on it, no matter how many silly uninformed rumors you heard or people who think they know.

Maybe if Phantom had gotten a 99.15, they would have been included. They didn't. So they're not. Are there people out there who seriously don't understand the poll question here?? Allow me to make it easier for those who lack the understanding: The highest recorded score in DCI history is 99.15. It has happened twice. The 2002 Cavaliers and the 2005 Cadets. This poll is asking which of those two shows (and those two shows ONLY) do you prefer. See how easy it is when you break things down like that? :)

Cavaliers. It's not even close, IMO.

Blue Stars got robbed. :P Hey, the 33rd anniversary of questionable judging at DCI Finals. Woohoo!!! (I'm just kidding folks. It's all good.)

The thing people fail to realize is that the directors and board members of DCI are also fans of drum corps. They are actually HUGE fans of drum corps. Most of them have spent their entire lives in drum corps. Most of them have sacrificed more for their involvement in drum corps than any of us can ever know. They may not like all of the things that many percieve "the ordinary fan" likes, but then again, if we could get ALL the fans to agree on anything, that would be a major accomplishment. Nay, it would be a miracle!

Nope. Those things don't add up to nearly what you think. And those things only would slightly reduce costs on things such as uniforms and equipment. Even with any discounts, those are still huge investments. There are little to no sponsorships and manufacturers discounts on fuel, insurance, buying another bus, paying for more staff, buying more food, redoing the equipment truck, bringing in more volunteers and drivers, etc etc etc. We're still talking about tens of thousands upon tens of thousands of dollars here. As far as trying to get a few woodwinds into the pit to be amped, I don't see that happening. If they're going to go through the trouble of legalizing woodwinds just so they can have one or two play in the pit through a microphone, then they'll just go for the whole shabang. In this instance, they'll either go for it all or they won't go for it at all. And when you take into account the considerable cost, I don't see them going for it at all. Well, George will try. But even his board can't afford this.

I'm not assuming anything, really. It HAS been attempted before and it failed miserably. It probably will be attempted again, and it will fail miserably again. I've spoken with 6 corps directors about this in the last 2 years. They all said the same thing. Corps directors (or the Boards of Directors who they answer to) will not vote for those kinds of expenditures.

Anyone who thinks that they would keep the personnel at 135 if they added woodwinds is out of their minds. They would raise the personnel limit to around 180 or so (or whatever another bus would hold), and THEN make the woodwind rule change. Not gonna happen.

This is why you will NOT see woodwinds on the DCI field of competition anytime soon....... Individual corps budgets are tight as it is. Fundraising is difficult. If you want to add woodwinds, you must: ADD $$$ to the budget for (at the least) one more bus ADD $$$ to the budget for more fuel.... seen the gas prices lately?? ADD $$$ to the budget for more uniforms ADD $$$ to the budget for more food ADD $$$ to the budget for more staff ADD $$$ to the budget for new instruments ADD $$$ to the budget to outfit the equipment and food trucks for the added storage space, etc. Not to mention insurance costs and the added need for more volunteers and drivers and other support vehicles. If people think the revenue generated from tour fees will cover these costs, they are fooling themselves. Plus, the budget increases will mean corps will have to up their fundraising efforts even more to be able to continue operations year after year. Some will argue that adding any-key brass was a huge expense. Well, this is not like any-key brass, which is basically replacing one set of horns with another. The resale value of the any-key horns alone makes the investment pay off far more than what it was like when you were stuck with a set of G horns for ten years or more. Some will argue that adding amplification was a huge expense. Well, this is not like amplification, which, even though it is an added expense, it's not a bank breaker. Amplification is an absolute drop in the bucket compared to the BIG MONEY we're talking about when you start adding vehicles and fuel and all that other stuff. We're talking about tens of thousands upon tens of thousands of dollars..... and then some! People around here are fond of saying "follow the money." Well, there you go. This is simply not an expenditure the overwhelming majority of corps can afford. Right now, there is really only one director I can think of (maybe two) who would vote for this. And even his Board of Directors would have to think twice before approving such expenses considering their recent (and very public) struggles with fundraising. From a purely logistic and financial standpoint, there simply aren't anywhere near enough directors who will approve this. And I can't envision that the situation will change in ten years as prices RISE. Translation: Woodwinds on the field in DCI = Ain't. Gonna. Happen. You may untwist your panties now.

Thanks for your comments. They are appreciated.

So everyone posting on DCP is a bunch of babies. Cool. Thanks for clearing that up.

I highly doubt that. You'd probably be doing exactly what you're doing now, only you would have entitled this post, "Bb Brass and the Demise of Drum Corps." Or some other thing that has changed which you don't like.

Now I've seen everything. GMichael1230 calling people out for being rude, belittling, and nasty. Forgive me while I go off into this corner and GUT LAUGH until I vomit.

SOYLENT GREEN IS PEOPLE!!!!!!!! IT'S PEEEEEEEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You gotta remember....for some people the rules don't apply because they are special!

Boo-frickity-hoo.

It's pretty obvious to anyone who knows Jeff Fiedler that he does NOT feel that it would be impossible for the Cavaliers to be competitive without using amplification. But by all means, keep twisting his words around. Keep lying to people. Keep distorting things. You're really good at it.

"On a few occasions, corps suffered electrical or equipment failure, and yet were rewarded with higher scores, something that would never be done for any other sort of “failure”, be it a musical or marching mistake. " Still waiting for proof that whoever these corps were who were given higher scores were being judged by the same exact panel. Haven't gotten any yet. It also assumes that the rest of the performance was exactly the same. Which is all but impossible. This one statement alone does nothing to substantiate what you say. It actually speaks to a general ignorance and naivety that is quite alarming considering the number of years the author of the petition has been involved in drum corps. "We know that this is what lies ahead, because two Division 1 drum corps directors have even admitted that it would be impossible in the future for a corps to be competitive without utilizing the newest innovations, should the visions of a few directors continue unchecked." If you're speaking about Jeff Fiedler, well then congratulations. You have a job awaiting you in the US Government. He never said that it would be impossible for a corps to be competitive. That is something the author extracted from a statement with an altogether different context. If anyone thinks that Jeff Fiedler thinks the Cavaliers can absolutely NOT be competitive if they didn't use amplification, then again, it speaks to an overall ignorance and naivety. That statement is so beyond false, it's ridiculous. And when you distort the words of the people you are sending a petition to, it also does not help substantiate what you say. So aside from these fundamental problems with the structure of the petition, and the fact that the rest of it is pretty much littered with sentimental opinions passed off as facts, it's great. Good luck.

I think it's safe to say that the whole SHOW was unlike anything that had ever come before it.

Jeremiah Symphony. HOLY COW!!! I never knew something like that could be pulled off on a football field. Unbelievable.

Your OPINION is duly noted. Thank you. But isn't it funny how so many different people who actually WERE *directly* involved (and I'm not even talking about anyone who has posted in this thread) have differing views of the "truth?" I'm afraid the truth lies not in the extremes being bantered back and forth due to emotional attachments, but rather somewhere in the middle. (As it does so often in life.) And until some verifiable facts come forward that can be substantiated...which has yet to happen...I'm afraid that the "truth" as you or I or anyone else sees it is most often nothing more than our perceptions on a series of events that may or may not even be related. But whatever. 27th was a great corps to watch that year. I always enjoyed watching them, and I wanted to see in them in Finals as much as anyone. In the end, I think it is arguable that they should have been in, but no more arguable than some of the other 13th place corps over the years. I loved the Troopers that year, and VK, and thought it really could have gone either way. They all had differing aspects to their program that were quite strong. They also had differeng aspects of their program that were relatively weak. And in a competition of this nature, sometimes those weaknesses come back to bite you in the end. Three tenths, folks. It really could have gone either way. And yeah, audiodb, I guess Phantom couldn't have been too happy for Sky. :) I never got into Phantom that year. And I was glad when SkyRyders ended up ahead of them. I thought it was well deserved.

By the way, lest I be accused of not contributing to the real topic at hand which is 1986, my favorite moments from that season were: - The SkyRyders - who could have NOT felt good for them? The level of theatrics they brought to the field was truly remarkable. And so many teary eyes during Over the Rainbow. Fantastic show! - Star of Indiana and the last few power chords of Close Encounters. No holes in that sound, baby! Hot stuff... - The Garfield experiment. Ya gotta hand to them. It may not have brought home a fourth straight title, but no one could ever accuse them of not having the guts to try something new. I thought the opener in particular rocked! - SCV russian, part 1. Loved it. Again, amazing theatrics in the top 12 that year. - Troopers, the last time that famous sunburst graced the big Saturday night show. Here's hoping we see it again on that stage soon!

As I said, I know a LOT of information about these particular situations (I was around in 1986), which is why it amuses me to see people talk about being screwed. That line of logic does NOT coincide with what I know about those things, or the accounts from the people I've been associated with who were very much in the thick of it at the time (including some staff and members of the 27th Lancers). I'm glad that the official stance from the 27th Lancers and their leadership is "no excuses." That's the way it should be in a competitive arena like drum corps. You can perform better than you've performed all year long, and it doesn't guarantee anything. Reasonable people understand that, and I certainly appreciate you coming right out and saying it. Thank you! In regards to not believing something if I never see it, well, in the case of allegations of conspiracy that would have to include the executive director of DCI at the time, the other corps directors of the member corps of DCI at the time, and the entire judging community at the time, yeah, I think I would need to see some concrete proof on that one. "We were robbed" and "we did everything DCI wanted us to and got crapped on" just doesn't cut it. Dinosaurs? Sheesh, I see 'em every day! :)

As I expected. Not one single shred of anything verifiable. Thanks for being consistent. Have a great summer.