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The Holy Name/Garfield/of Bergen County/No Name Cadets looked like military cadets (full with baldirc that would hold a sword, etc.) and have kept that same look. I do not love the Cadets uniform because of the way it looks. It looks like most older high school and college band uniforms (probably not completely unrelated). I love the Cadets uniform because it is what they have worn for such a long time. That is really nice, and it is very pleasing to see the Cadets in their uniform when they take the field. I did not like how they changed the uniform in recent years. I am glad they decided to return to the original. The Rosemont Cavaliers (who by the way, had their roots in Boy Scouts) have kept their look, which looks somewhat like their image, a cavalier (especially a drum major at retreat with cape). The look has been about the same for a very long time. The Madison Scouts looked like Boy Scouts because that is who they were and still are. The baggy and christmas tree comments are fine, but I am not sure if you know... that the BSA uniform has primarily followed earthy tan and green colors. The accent color to the uniform is red. Red is the color of the epaulettes and the wool overcoat among other things. The BSA uniform also uses a merit badge sash worn over the shoulder, across, and to the waist. If selected, an Order of the Arrow BSA scout also earns a white sash with a red arrow emblazoned on the front. Some troops and training camps choose to use cords, berets, campaign hats, and other uniform parts that are traditionally not required. The Madison Scouts have not only an identity through name, but an identity through history unlike any other corps. They started as and are exactly what their name says they are. They were the first musical post of the Boy Scouts of America. There are still registered with the Four Lakes Council of BSA. I believe their uniform should reflect their history. The red accents and military style of uniform, Eisenhower jacket, Aussie (which looks a campaign hat with one side turned up and with no dimples - the Troopers wear a sort of campaign hat, if you were wondering) primarily green color and loose sash across the body were all reflective of their true Boy Scout identity. The 06 uniform was not horrible. It looked almost like the drum major uniform in 85. I would like to see the uniform return to the way it looked in earlier years, especially with a little more red. The 88-02 "Superman" is great. I do not think that uniforms have to be stretch, slimming, or padded to look good. Not every drum corps uniform should have to look like a drum corps uniform. There were some men in Madison who were not slim, and they still looked looked great in the Superman or most recently, the 06 Alumni. In short, I like the "Superman" and the Alumni, but I would be in favor of any previous Madison Scout uniform from 1938 through 2002.

TO ALL : As the original poster - Please let this thread die. My original intent was for this to be a positive thread about Scott Stewart. I feel that sometimes he gets a bad rap on this site. This thread has taken a bad turn. I have received some personal messages supporting my views, but others feel that this will end up being an airing of dirty laundry. I would not want this to end up being negative or detrimental. Scouts will be great this year. Thank you.

edited

Well, that is not who I was remembering, but ok.

GGarrett - Please do not perceive that you are in the minority based on my response. My opionions are heavy. There only my opinions. You could be totally correct.

Go Scouts!

This is one thing that I had respected about Garfield for so long. They kept their uniform almost unchanged. I think they are returning to the original version again this year. It is like college football vs. NFL. College uniforms (some) are way better. NFL uniforms may have become more sleek and visually bold, but not better. What makes college uniforms (some) better is their identity. Michigan, Notre Dame, Ohio State, Penn State, USC, etc. Extremely minor and gradual changes. When a spectator sees a Michigan football uniform, something happens in his/her head. Love/hate whatever connection/emotion they have. I would like a visually connection with Scouts. The older uniforms do that for me. If your forms have good shape and are evenly spaced, you look good.

I am not sure exactly why the uniforms from mid-80's to early 00's were not continued. I thought they were still good. More classic than others, but good. Really, I have no problem with any uniform if it reflects older versions. I think the newer versions lost the Scout's visual identity. Even the Alumni uniform was cool. It looked great to me. It should be something that does not cost a lot of money to construct or maintain. AND we do not need to pay someone a ridiculous amount of money to make us look similar to other corps. I think having that classic look again would set us apart.

Jeff Spanos and T.R. Fitz-Gibbon did a great job with Scouts before, and they will do a great job in the future. I have confidence in them and the Scouts' future. I expect that they have good vision and direction for what the Scouts will become. They have my full support.

I think my experience seven years ago was in "todays age of drum corps." My point was that drum corps can and should be accessible. I should not hear from students that they cannot march drum corps because it is too expensive. Ok, $1,500, so... add $1,000 x 135 = an extra $135,000. That makes a difference, but should not make or break a corps if you are running it properly. This is my point. The people who are managing corps do not run things as efficiently and wisely as they could. Do not mention rising fuel prices. Again, a thing that should not make or break a corps. (It can make or beak you, if you are not running it properly. Look at some other threads regarding touring, etc.) The proof comes from something that Todd Schultz mentioned. If one was a veteran, the dues were less and less. There were vets paying $200. This was not 1960. It was 1999 & 2000.

We had a food truck. It transported food and cooking equipment. I liked eating inside. I always felt sorry for the other corps. Would you like to sit on the ground or at a cafeteria table? Would you like to be outside or in air conditioning? Would you like to battle against insects and elements while consuming your meal? I am sure that many corps' cooks do an incredible job cooking, but a cook in an air conditioned environment with professional level ranges and ovens is a happier cook. After every show, our cooks presented a spread of leftovers from previous meals, desserts, PB&J, juice, water, etc. I think this approach makes perfect sense. Jeff Spanos and T.R. Fitz-Gibbon are awesome as well. They will have a great season!

Scott Stewart was and is the greatest leader I ever had. It was not about only what happened on the field. He trained members to be good and responsible men. We were brothers. Even if any of us had severe disagreements, we were brothers. We took the field with a purpose, and that purpose was meant for the audience. Scott managed the organization so well that I believe it will never be matched by any corps. When he left, Scouts had so much money. More money than any corps has ever known. In a very short time, Scouts went deep into debt. How is this possible? I am not going to post how much money we had, but we had a lot. More money than you would think a drum corps should have. He was paid only enough money to remain alive. He lived for months on food left oever from the previous summer. He lived in the corps office. He drove a car (some crappy little Geo) that did not even come with a radio. We never went hungry. I could not believe the stories from friends in other top 6 corps at their conditions. "We got a bowl of fruit salad today." WHAT? The most I ever had to pay in dues was $500. That was 1999. What has happened? So disappointing and disgusting. I am not saying that absolutely everything he did was perfect, but Scott Stewart was awesome. Ever corps should trust him with their operation. In my opinion.

Aside from whether Scouts' field programs were what DCI was looking for during his final years with Scouts or not... Death to DCI etc. - Aside from those conversations. Scott Stewart was and is the greatest leader I ever had. It was not about only what happened on the field. He trained members to be good and responsible men. We were brothers. Even if any of us had severe disagreements, we were brothers. We took the field with a purpose, and that purpose was meant for the audience. Scott managed the organization so well that I believe it will never be matched by any corps. When he left, Scouts had so much money. More money than any corps has ever known. In a very short time, Scouts went deep into debt. How is this possible? I am not going to post how much money we had, but we had a lot. More money than you would think a drum corps should have. He was paid only enough money to remain alive. He lived for months on food left oever from the previous summer. He lived in the corps office. He drove a car (some crappy little Geo) that did not even come with a radio. We never went hungry. I could not believe the stories from friends in other top 6 corps at their conditions. "We got a bowl of fruit salad today." WHAT? The most I ever had to pay in dues was $500. That was 1999. What has happened? So disappointing and disgusting. I am not saying that absolutely everything he did was perfect, but Scott Stewart was awesome. Ever corps should trust him with their operation. In my opinion.

Go Scouts!

Go Wolverines!

Oh, by the way my solution to the woodwinds, amps, narration problem IS TO NOT DO IT. Simple enough. Oh your differing mindset bit - war Malcolm X. I am playing with you a bit here.

Go as far back as needed. No pit. No valves. I don't care. Just not what it is now. I do believe that the amps thing will pass - it is just like the gigantic props craze of the mid-90's. That was dumb also. Remember - this is my opinion. Thank you for telling me that my opinion is wrong.

yes - I could apply everything I said to you. Have a nice day! :)

I do not believe what people on this site post. We all have opinions. We all have individual truths. Do not tell me that mine is wrong. It is mine. THEREFORE... The ship has been going down for a while. We bail enough water out to have occasional good years. I consider myself to be young in the drum corps activity (my first show was in 1985 - DCI MIDWEST - Eastern Michigan University) My first finals was Madison '87. With the way that I think those years (~85-89, 90?) were so incredible compared to what is being put out now, and what is being done to the activity, this is my understanding... TAKE YOUR STUPID CRAP AND MAKE A BAND CIRCUIT. YOUR GOING TO HAVE STRING PLAYERS ON REMOTE CONTROLLED MOBILE DRILL PLATFORMS SOON ENOUGH. I WILL CREATE A WONDERFUL WARMING BLAZE WITH YOUR CLARINETS AND CELLI.

I do not believe what people on this site post. We all have opinions. We all have individual truths. Do not tell me that mine is wrong. It is mine. THEREFORE... THE SHIP IS GOING DOWN!!!! The ship has been going down for a while. We bail enough water out to have occasional good years. I consider myself to be young in the drum corps activity (my first show was in 1985 - DCI MIDWEST - Eastern Michigan University) My first finals was Madison '87. With the way that I think those years (~85-89, 90?) were so incredible compared to what is being put out now, and what is being done to the activity, this is my understanding... The bandos have hijacked (more accurately Hopjacked) DCI. I will never attend a "drum corps" show again after 3 years from now. Wait, I am sorry, by then it will be a band show - that is why I will not be attending. [personal attack removed] WHAT HAPPENED? [personal attack removed] $$$. That is what happened. The reason that people complain about amps, etc. IS BECAUSE THEY LIKED THE BEAUTIFUL ACTIVITY THAT DRUM CORPS WAS. AND - I can only personally speak back to what it was in the '80s. TAKE YOUR STUPID CRAP AND MAKE A BAND CIRCUIT. YOUR GOING TO HAVE STRING PLAYERS ON REMOTE CONTROLLED MOBILE DRILL PLATFORMS SOON ENOUGH. [personal attack removed] Edited for personal attacks-JAS

new SCV = old Scouts new Scouts = old SCV think about it.

I am going to try to present my observation in a respectful manner. You may agree. You may not. Please do not try to find an exception and consequently disregard my opinion. There are exceptions to everything. I am stating this for the benefit of drum corps. Thank you. OBSERVATION When reflecting on the greatest drum corps shows of all time (not mine - everbody on this site and everybody I have ever talked to - THEIR FAVORITES) - I find that those shows are the ones with the greatest music. There are other factors at play. BUT - The music was accessible and understandable. It was GREAT music - performed well. It was music that was arranged relatively close to the original composition. The reason being - great composers are known because their music is great. Let their music speak as well as it can. This is what has made great drum corps show. (counterargument - "So you are saying that original compositions of drum corps today are horrible and the arrangers do not know what they are doing? You jerk!") Well if you think that I am a jerk, then OK. BUT - Bernstein, Copeland, Beethoven, Dvorak, Andrew Lloyd Webber, the 007 composers, the Latin composers... they are known for a reason. Their music is good. I would like to hear it. If it has been so cut and pasted and had so many liberties taken that I cannot recognize or find it pleasing - it is not their music anymore. It is just poor music. Difficult to get into. COUNTERARGUMENT - "But it is the visual side that has evolved and is so exciting." "Visual has made the best drum corps shows." Ok - some like to reference 84 Cadets or others (again the Z-pull later etc. Cavies - every single possible geometric or wave-like design conceivable) BUT - these are not what made the greatest drum corps shows THE GREATEST. Examples: 80 Spirit, 86 BD, 87 SCV, 87 Cadets, 88 SCV, 89 PR... you know where this list is going you've seen it a thousand times in this forum. Usually included are also several Scouts shows including 95 Scouts. - This is where I may lose some of you. If you do not agree with Scouts or do not agree with what I am about to say, then just respond to what I have said so far and ignore the rest. - 95 Scouts is something reflective of how a drum corps show should be. Of most importance through the entire show was the music. "But what about the visual of the rotating company front?" YES. I totally agree. It was awesome, but not MOST important. When we reflect on these greatest drum corps shows - even to the most recent years - the best shows are with the best music AND the music most true to the original. Enough. Let me catch my breath. PLEASE - I would love to hear your thoughts.

Alright. matched is better - period. BUT this is another example of SCV trying to be the philosophers of DCI. Traditional advocates need to get over it - and as far as SCV is concerned, please - continue to amuse me. that is all.

The problem is that you are playing traditional. that is all.

No one runs with one arm and one leg. that is all.