Fred Windish

This truly is an amazing discussion! Seems to be no end in sight. Here's what I see . . . The top corps of DCI are pushing 'evolution' SO hard, spending SO much additional money on development, they are creating a unique and special product that is becoming increasingly difficult to achieve. We can expect fewer and fewer survivors in this quest. BUT . . . for those who remain, the product on the field should be quite spectacular. Incredible talent, constant costume changes, stunning back drops, and unique special effects. WOW! Coming soon to a stadium near you . . . As an old guy, I equate what's happening to the old Ice Capades. Something impressive? YES. Something you will be willing to spend money for once per year (when it comes to your town)? YES Something DCA-like? Positively NO. (sorry if this observation offends anyone)

How 'bout that ! No on-the-job training need here. Welcome home, Tom, and best wishes!

Tom Brace - I congratulate you on keeping this thread alive and acknowledge the grammatical quality of your postings. I have enjoyed reading along here. Please allow me to state a few beliefs in the simplest terms I can. 1. DCI is/has been nothing more than the wishes of whomever happens to represent the top 12 scoring corps. 2. Currently, the majority opinion of those top 12 folks is to keep advancing this activity by new innovation, and at any cost. 3. That same majority opinion has clearly made participation at their own 'voting level' increasingly more difficult to achieve. 4. DCA is/has been a much more 'grassroots' organization operating under a slower rate of change. 5. Talented musicians are found within BOTH organizations. The very best DCI performers are consistent with the very best DCA performers. 6. People pay to see both DCI and DCA. 7. The number of participating organizations in DCI is decreasing. 8. The number of particpating organizations in DCA is increasing. 9. The value of either organization can only be determined by the eyes of the beholder. 10. Anyone posting here has interest in BOTH organizations. But Tom. . . with respect to the conceptual image of this thread, i.e., filling a void, you continue to reinforce your observation that no DCI Open Class corps has rejected DCI in favor of DCA. You are currently correct in your observation, however, you seem not to see that potential DCI Open Class participating members DO seem to be finding (in DCA) an alternative to DCI in their quest to satisfy their interest in marching music. DCA is growing, and DCA is getting younger. Is there any significance in that for you, Tom?

First of all, I want to thank Bruckner for the excellent post. Please indulge me now, as I try to explain my previously stated contribution. DCI really IS an organization that represents the highest standard of (technical) performace, state-of-the-art presentation, and leading-edge progression of the marching music art. What DCI presents is INCREDIBLE and displays the pinnacle of this activity. Unfortunately, achieving and maintaining that same level is very costly, well beyond MOST community organizations with any interest in marching music. The number of those at that level SHOULD BE expected to be limited to a small number of (capable) organizations. So what about the rest? There are other ways to do marching music at a less intense (and costly) level. One of those alternatives is DCA, and other all-age drum corps presentations. A market IS available there, too. That market is open to any organization having interest. Does all-age fill a void? YES! . . . but only for those organizations who SEE a void!

Let's all take a short breath to acknowledge it's REAL good to see jeffsnewjetta posting his opinions here! Talk about filling a void! This type of quality DCP discussion was much more frequent whenever "Big Jeff" added his 2 cents.

I congratulate Tom Maiello of the Raiders for weighing-in on this discussion. Not many of the associates at his level would do such a thing. For me, it's all about "do we want marching music to prosper and endure?" Not just any marching music, but marching music outside of high school and college programs. Of course we do! So the question is, how can we keep as many organizations running within the constraints and economy of our current society? For Tom, and others, it SHOULD BE about endurance. Not about a risky mortgage of one's organizational future to fit into an elitist category that few can ever occupy. Right now, the all-age drum corps concept, be it DCA or whatever, CAN fill a void created by demands that become seen as too heavy for some related groups. What's wrong with that?

Good morning, Oz! Right you are. The same description could be applied to the creation of DCA. I believe the expansion of the all-age activity is due mostly to accessibility. All-age drum corps leaders never allowed the bar to be set so high that fewer and fewer groups can participate. Give credit to DCA's leadership over the years. It has steadfastly maintained a lower 'pay to play' requirement. The weekend-only thing is HUGE. All-age drum corps is still very doable for any community group. To me, the all-age model is a more friendly, welcoming pastime. A hobby, not one corporate monster competing against another corporate monster. I fully expect more corps to recognize the greater staying power of the all-age model. DCA will continue to grow, surprisingly, as something less, not more.

This is an excellent discussion! Ya know, I've read all of this and seem to see most responses as 'DCI is some sort of problem' in where we are today. That's OK. Those opinions are as valid as any other. For me, I look back (way back) and consider why DCI was formed in the first place. Here's what I remember. . . It was all about the 'haves and have nots.' The nationally successful corps, like Cavaliers, Troopers, etc, decided that VFW and AL were not really understanding what the dominant corps were all about. The dominant corps determined they could provide better guidance for their own activity. The dominant corps decided to fund (and oversee) their own activity in a manner that better represents what they (dominant corps) believed to be relevant. They broke away. They funded their own organization. The new organization was intended to preserve the interests of the (then) dominant corps. THOSE corps stepped up with funding to create something that would better serve THOSE corps. Nothing wrong in that. Why in the world does anyone (today) think DCI was formed to be the savior and protector of the entire activity? DCI was formed to protect the interest of those corps seen to be dominant. Nothing more. Actually, DCI created a championship enviornment wherein other corps can score their way into that dominant (privileged) category. That's what championships were (and are) all about. . . . to determine a top 12, who shall enjoy all the spoils that comes with that accomplished level. I have NO problem with where DCI is evolving. DCI is doing what DCI was originally charged to do. In my opinion, DCI IS functioning as planned. Truth be told, DCI is wildly successful, when evaluated as to its original, intended purpose.

Hi all! Yes, I am somewhat biased here, but this DVD is really something special. It is much more than just performance footage, really a comprehensive and unique collection of memories. My favorite segment (reflective of my age) is the video of the 1968 DCA Championship show. That corps was near flawless and held the Buccaneer standard for excellence for many years. Remember now, DCA did not produce videos in 1968. Really, no one had VCRs then. What you will see here is a unique blending of technologies that reproduces that era as accurately as possible. This DVD is VERY well done. Then again, it's a Buccaneer production, so . . .

HI, GARY! Excellent, excellent chocolate fudge! Thanks so much. HI, TOM! Welcome HOME! About the survey . . . . . Ed Dempsey is a terrific guy. Ed Dempsey can truly help DCA. DCA has always been fan-friendly. It's a cliche, but DCA really is 'all about you.' Fill out the survey, it can help advance all-age drum corps. Now, here's a scoop . . . Our friend Cozy Baker is currently in Mexico, pursuing a dream, playing in a local band. If all goes well, he'll be there for several months. I expect Cozy to be pretty much out of touch with us, and reality (our reality) for this visit. Hairbear . . . your thoughts?

There's a smile on my face! Two wonderful people. All the best to both!

Well put, Nat! Moe's absence from the Hall of Fame roster has been a mystery to me for quite some time. I'm thinking the outpouring happening here WILL guarantee Moe's election in 2008. Thanks Moe

From a different perspective, I congratulate Al Murray and Dynasty for their continuous support of all-age corps. Every year, DEG/Dynasty responds to the call to financially support DCA. Here's a company that truly understands all-age performers include persons who make purchasing decisions. Please give Dynasty a chance to earn your business. They believe in you.

Yeah, my memory of that past Buccaneer season (was it '75?) is the narration was ONLY during trooping of the stands. For the young'uns, trooping refers to exiting the field after competition, turning towards the grandstand, then passing in revue down the track, right to left. Usually with headgear off, sweated performers, all enjoying appreciative crowd response, sometimes clapped in cadence. A beautiful moment that happened 5-6 times per event. Unfortunately, trooping the stands, and other traditional behaviors, has been cast off at most events. In the big picture, creating events less worth the price of admission. Hard to figure.

Hi Mike, and others! I was directly responsible for that 1977 PBS broadcast of the DCA Championships in Allentown. We worked a deal with our local PBS affiliate (WLVT-TV) to broadcast the event, and produce a 2 hour highlight show to air the following week. DCA was paid for the rights. I was the assistant producer. Our local PBS channel was a little ahead of the curve at that time, a near equal to WGBH in Boston in terms of programming. The 1977 broadcast was OUTSTANDING! To this day, I consider it to be the best audio capture of drum corps I have ever heard. Almost no one had personal VCRs then, so that's the real problem here. The Allentown broadcast was originally made available to the Eastern Educational television Network (EETN), a group of 43 stations east of the Mississippi. The same broadcast was later put out for purchase to the entire United States PBS network, and there were many takers. It became a nationally shown event. About 5 years ago, I went over to WLVT-TV and tried to obtain an archived copy. I was informed that WLVT does NOT archive back that far and a copy of the program is no longer available. I was even able to speak with the fellow I dealt with back then (Roger Miles) so I know I received an honest answer. A home video tape of that program MIGHT be available somewhere, but I still haven't found a source. If you are reading this and have a copy, please let me know! It was that good! I believe this type of opportunity could present itself again. It will require a local station in the championship host community to take interest, however. I can assure everyone, for 2006, an effort WAS made by DCA to include a broadcast possibility within a sponsorship package presented to Time-Warner Cable in Rochester. Time-Warner opted out, as they had just committed to the new PAETEC Park project and the Rhinos soccer club. Timing was not right and I can understand that. An earlier poster mentioned broadcasting over the internet. I agree that concept has potential. I just began a Yahoo Sports subscription so I can watch Alabama football from Pennsylvania. It seems Yahoo has other products available on a pay-per-view basis too, so who knows what the future will hold? :)

Mike D, On this issue, I agree with you totally! Thanks!

I, too, noticed the ads on the video scoreboard. I thought their presence at DCA was GREAT! For me, it did help us come across in a more important light. They were very well done and added a certain legitimacy to our product. Wish we had more! Bottom line, drum corps (DCI & DCA) requires the interest of supporting sponsors to ensure its existence. Ticket revenues are less and less a factor in preserving our activity. Thank Heavens for those who saw value in reaching our audience, then PAID for the opportunity! Please find a way to utilize their product. I would hope most of our performers were so focused on the task at hand, they didn't even notice. Scream all you want at Tiger Woods. He just doesn't hear you! :)

Dale, Mike, Marty, et al . . . Much appreciation for fueling this discussion. This is the most interesting DCP topic I've followed in quite some time! As I stated before, an accurate, definitive answer to "How would the Bucs do . . . " is impossible to identify, and for me, that's the beauty of this activity! I've been to plenty of DCI shows and felt "How can they be this perfect?" I've also been to plenty of DCA shows and thought "Gee, this was a good night out, money well spent!" For me ( a blue short-wearing Buccaneer), what the Bucs put on the field this year was stunning. I couldn't be more pleased with what my heritage has to offer today. Was it Santa Clara in blue? I don't know. I do know it was drum corps on a VERY high level. That's enough for me! I also believe our first-on, finalist corps, Rochester Crusaders, were excellent! Probably the strongest corps to occupy that slot in many, many years. What a championship it was! This I believe (sorry) . . . I paid good money for my tickets, probably dropped $1000 into the Rochester community, and I have NO regrets what-so-ever! I'll be back next year, for sure. That's DCA! Could the 2007 Buccaneers corps I saw Sunday crack DCI's top twelve? Can Appalachian State beat Michigan?

Actually, this is an off-season topic of discussion I enjoy every year. However, I really don't want to know the true answer for ANY corps in ANY year. I just don't want my enjoyment of any corps performance to be skewed by a number, particularly when today's numbers are only the product of someone else's opinion. I do believe the 2007 Buccaneers I saw at DCA Finals would have earned a spot in the lower half of this year's DCI top twelve. I can also tell you, I was as excited and satisfied viewing the Renegades (8th place at DCA) this year as I was any DCI finalist. Truth be told, I don't care how any DCA corps would fare in DCI. What matters to me is if I have found what I am looking for in a drum corps event. There are as many accurate answers to this question as there are spectators in the stands. That's the way it should be! :)

Best wishes, DCA and thanks to all of you cyber fans for being here. It DOES make a difference for the corps to know you care. And again, many thanks John Donovan. Only you could have made this happen! Fred

Wow! This is what they call "Chamber of Commerce" weather"! RADICAL change from last year! I congratulated Allen Buell on his successful request to the man upstairs. I also cautioned Allen not to request TOO much this year! (Buccaneer Alumni here)

Like these guard uniforms (powder blue) and complimentary silks!

Frontier marches well. Nice job! A few thoughts from a Marketing and PR perspective: Backfield sponsor banners are repositioned this year to cover the seatbacks. This change makes them all look somewhat larger. Center stage banner is of course, A.J. Wright. This fine retail clothing company has been an essential DCA provider and it's greatly appreciated. Just under the A.J. Wright banner is DRUM CORPS PLANET. I can recall last year when those horrible conditions ripped everything apart. John was beside himself! "Say, Fred . . . can you see about getting my banner back up"? Thankfully, the PAETEC Park crew was excellent and handled that task several times! I see a new banner this year, Zildjian. That's good news. Does anyone every think of the word cymbal without envisioning that special Zildjian font that has been so much a part of drum corps since its inception? Also see a new banner promoting "HALFTIME." Sorry, I don't know what that is. I'm thinking maybe a magazine. I'll be sure to check into HALFTIME. Hey, see what presenting at DCA can do for your company? Oh yeah, there's Bob and Cathy Cardaneo"s CruiseOne banner. Great people. Plan your next trip with them, you won't be disappointed, call 1-800-519-0050, even if only to say "I like drum corps"!

I am assured every drum corps fan following this coverage from California is now out of bed and awake! Sure wish you were here. This is 3 days of drum corps like non other. It's difficult for me to keep tears from my eyes. Thousands of great folks are here from all over, many wearing corps jackets and other attire from decades ago. Some of the stuff actually still fits! This is truly a family reunion that can only have been built in emotion over many, many years. And boy, French speakers are everywhere - but communication is NEVER a problem. Absolutely perfect weather predicted for the next several days. Gotta watch a little Frontier. With my typing skills, an entire corps can go by as I prepare a brief message. More later. Fred

Vic Firth? Sadly, during my brief tenure, Vic Firth was unwilling/unable to provide a minimal sponsorship of DCA. This, despite having the image of their logo plastered all over the promotions we did featuring our champions, the Reading Buccaneers. Perhaps 2007 is different. I sure hope so.