Fred Windish

Good stuff, Richard! There does seem to be a regular increase in profit. My real concern being, if this increase can only be pegged to an increase in ticket pricing, there COULD be a point of concern. I also agree with perc2100. It really is none of our business. But, hey, isn't it this type of speculation that drives all message boards?

To put it another way, Richard, Gross Revenue amounts (as you provided) are NOT a reliable measure of the success in selling a product to a growing audience. Assume, for illustration, DCI decides to sell its 2010 Yearbook for $50 per copy. Its new Gross Revenue from that product could well sky-rocket. It certainly does not mean more people purchased the yearbook than during the previous year. Less persons paying more can actually generate an impressive growth from one year to the next. I've never been a fan of annual increases in ticket prices. At some point, the practice begins to work against you. At the very least, it lessens the ability to attract a walk-up crowd of potential new fans from the immediate area. Anyway, this has been an excellent discussion, and I hope you continue to contribute as we all try to understand the state of our beloved activity.

Like BRASSO, I caution Richard to consider all qualifiers (like inflation) in determining the true meaning of current year posted income. Something else to take into account is the rise in ticket prices and price increases on all other income producers. If the price of a product doubles, while the expense to produce the product increases, say 10%, the significance of the posted total income number is greatly affected. I have no data that suggests DCI's audience counts are down. I hope not. However, total income to the organization for any given year is not a reliable indicator.

IntheMood, I am someone who referenced school buses in a recent post. To clarify my use of that reference, I want to say school buses are a good thing, BUT . . . should not be the most critical aspect of DCI's directors' vision. Surely, introducing new fans to this activity should be a constant goal. Understand, I look at things differently than the average fan. I'm certain Bob Jacobs does as well. Bob did put an emphasis on retaining long-standing support. That's a prudent choice. What's not good (to me) is a perceived impression that DCI has allowed creativity to dominate its business model. I believe the business model MUST always dominate. It's how the bills are paid. I stopped purchasing tickets to DCI events about 15 years ago. It no longer "did" for me what it once did, but that's just me. MANY others have taken my place. I became disinterested due to the product's lack of melody. The recent drive toward voice and amplification serves further to keep me away. Geez, where are they headed? Why not simply place an enormous boom box on the fifty and keep the kids on the bus? Yuk! My concern is with the DCI organization retaining its status as a sought-after convention in the eyes of potential host communities for DCi's main events. School bus groups have very little to do with that appeal. Real appeal comes from our activity's ability to inject NEW dollars into the host community. Hit-and-run bus groups are not significant to that goal. Neither are dollars from local residents who purchase seats, as their dollars are simply re-directed dollars, within an already-existing economy. DCI's leadership must always keep its eyes on creating new dollars flowing to the host community if it seeks to demonstrate its value to a sponsoring entity. Legacy fans produce MANY new dollars. That's my point.

Loyal fans, legacy fans, marchers from other decades. Whatever you want to call folks like that, have a significant impact upon making DCI events seen as desired conventions to any host city. Certainly more important than how many band kinds come in on yellow buses and leave 6 hours later. Deals like DCI got with Indy are made possible, in part, by hotel room occupancy and peripheral daily spending per diem. Quick-hit events where most attendees drop by for a few hours but go home the same day don't have maximum appeal. I can tell you from experience in Allentown, the DCA Championships there created 4 times the economic impact of the DCI events, yet the DCI events sometimes included 56 corps, larger crowd numbers. The difference? Passionate, established, "older" regular attendees who booked the hotel rooms, dined in local restaurants, discussed the event at local watering holes, gassed-up their own vehicles, etc. If DCI believes its big money events are mostly made possible by yellow school buses, it is sadly mistaken.

Call the activity Fred? OK with me! But, I believe what the original poster intended was to generate ideas IF the activity's leadership decided to actually re-name itself. I didn't get the impression the OP, and others, were demanding same. For the rest of my life, I'll call the activity "drum corps." I'm content with that, but truly, the activity is now so much more in actual presentation. Is that a problem given the current name? You decide. In analyzing this further, I have determined the absolute BEST re-branded name is ALREADY taken. That would be . . .. . Yea! Youth Education in the Arts 'kinda covers all of what this activity is now, and all of what it will ever be. Don't 'ya think?

Interesting question to ponder. At this point, the DCI activity needs a real "catch-all" kind of moniker. Something along the lines of . . . Sight & Sound Experience.

I think JimF-3rdBari alluded to what the current problem is. In order to be generally popular, i.e. large crowds, DCI needs to present an event that is easy to understand, fun, maybe even uplifting. Should DCI present an event the casual viewer finds difficult to decipher, it's growth potential is limited. I believe the current DCI event comes up short. Not just in my eye, but also to the eye of the casual viewer. The effort should be on designing the most marketable product possible. For me, that's not yet been achieved. You know, after seeing the Cadets' 2006 show live, I thought "Now, that would sell to the masses." It was well done, PLUS theatrical in a way that would satisfy anyone who just walked in. Yes, to the drum corps purist it was too over-the-top, but I believed it was worth exploring for its potential of wide-spread interest. The key words are wide-spread interest. If that somehow includes woodwinds (Geez, I hope not) than fine.

Al Murray was an important friend of DCA. I'll always be grateful for that. I didn't know Al is now disconnected from Dynasty. Sad news to me. I wish him well.

I'm with 'ya, pealrsnaredrummer77. I don't like where DCI is now either. I no longer pay to witness it. BUT . . . I remain open to what the current leadership is attempting to create. Something tells me they'll produce a product (maybe not drum corps as I knew it) I will buy into. I'm holding a "wait and see" attitude. For now, I'm quite content with my sideline view. How I spend my money will ALWAYS be my choice.

I doubt DCI will become MBI. But, I do expect continuous change from DCI. That's inevitable. The elite groups of marching arts will ALWAYS endeavor to stay "elite," i.e. capable of doing things unlike anyone else. As stated before, I believe the current DCI elite will morph into something that relies upon indoor venues. That's the only way to accommodate new sensory experiences without the limitations of today's model. Will where this all progresses still be called DCI? I don't think so, as more fitting names are available. Sight & Sound Impact (SSI). . . . maybe. Hey, I'll certainly pay to witness SSI. How 'bout you?

BRASSO- I appreciate and concur with your earlier statement (below) "I also think it's ludicrous for a show designer to have to EXPLAIN his show theme, music, visual to a judge before the season, so that the judge " gets it ". Man, what a stupid and backward concept. If your show theme is not conveyed in a coherent and appealing way to a JUDGE on the field of competition, then the show theme is disjointed and incoherent.... and should be judged as such. A show by a show producer or performer needs to be " sold " on the stage ( ie field ), not with the critic ( or in the case of DCI, the judge ) at some bistro over cocktails down the street from the theatre before the show opens on Broadway (or before the competition season in the case of DCI )." You nailed one of the reasons why the current activity seems so astray. If a judge, someone who has extensive exposure to where this activity is (and was), needs to be led by the hand through the presentation, one can only imagine how difficult it must be for a regular paying customer to fully appreciate and be positively moved by what's provided. Seems to me, if too many of our customers leave saying "It was good, but I didn't really get it," our potential for growth is limited. I'm not too much a fan of great ballet. During my 59 years, I can't remember ever wanting to purchase a ticket to see it live. I also know great ballet is not presented in the same manner, with the same results as, say, pro football. Ballet is a more intimate experience, but for a far smaller consumer base. But . . . in answer to this topic's challenge, I'd say any performance from the late seventies to the late eighties. Please don't misinterpret. I am convinced DCI will find a formula that will again work for me. I'm thinking that's when DCI's directors realize moving through the elusive "final frontier" requires it to present itself somewhere OTHER than a football field.

audiodb, I appreciate your analysis of my post. I only disagree with one of your assertions. You indicate we have no choice but to accept DCI where it is today. Not true. Like me, you can choose to not attend at all, or at least not attend as often as you once did. The DCI organization, by its nature, will continue to evolve into whatever form its decision-makers feel best for the moment. There's nothing sinister in that. The organization has behaved consistently from its inception. I am disappointed by certain aspects of today's DCI product, however, I am NOT resentful. Earlier, I laid out my vision of the future DCI. I am convinced that (indoor) model is coming. I am excited by that. As someone who enjoyed blast in New York three times, I can see myself buying-in to DCI once again at some future time. I have no plans to go to Indianapolis for DCI this year, probably not even for the next few years. But. . . DCI will always be on my radar. Our coordinates will line up again at some point.

Honestly, Jeff - If enough people walk, creating crowds in the 8-10K range for major events, I believe DCI will continue its rapid drive toward creativity and perfection by adjusting the scale of its venues. I truly believe we'll see the activity morph into an arena act, a "bigger-scale" blast! There are hundreds of large arenas to book. They are not controlled by weather. ALL show effects are possible, unique costuming, laser lights, smoke, videos, movable props and backgrounds of all sizes. A "wow" experience for entire families. Performing units in such a setting can be pared to 80-90 members. Today's elite corps organizations can field more than one touring ensemble, if they choose. DCI might even book the extravaganzas in cities for consecutive nights. More importantly, the season can be extended into non-traditional months. I do believe we'll see this within the next decade. I'll attend!

There IS an underpinning to many opinions here saying "DCI is now, and has been destroying drum corps." I don't agree. If we think back to when and why DCI was formed, more importantly, WHO formed it, we must recognized it was created to protect and promote the "super corps" at that time. Those high-end groups wanted to determine their own fate, not carry out the wishes of the American Legion or VFW. Their new organization accomplished that. Nothing has changed today. I haven't read the DCI By-laws (charter?) but I doubt the organization took responsibility for preserving EVERY drum corps on Earth, then and forever more. The organization DOES open an opportunity to EVERY drum corps on Earth to earn their way into an elite group (top 12, top 25) who shall determine how best to protect and promote a "super corps" group of participants. Hundreds, maybe thousands of non-member corps pursued the dream of becoming part of this elite group. Many of them failed and bankrupted themselves in the process. If we believe in the "survival of the fittest" theory, we see that concept continuing to play out. As consumers, WE do not have to buy into it. Yet, if the new vision and changes work for those who decide to make them, fine! There can be success without those who express their dismay here. Time will tell.

perc2100 brings up a longstanding "sticking point" with me. Is this activity doing its best attract the casual, walk-in spectator? My observation is, over the years, the drum corps organizations AND THEIR SHOW SPONSORS often lost sight of this important goal. To an extent, they have elected to "self-limit" the size of their audience through ticket price increases to meet declining customer counts. I believe some shows have little chance to attract brand new fans. Even the worst seats in the house have become somewhat pricey for newbies. Should they still pony-up the funds to see what we do, sitting past the goal line does not present us in a positive light. How many become repeat customers based on their first impression? I think few, especially if they also endure bad weather with no make-up date available.

I have no problem with DCI"s elite opting for woodwinds, harmonicas, accordions, "playing the spoons," etc. It's their choice, not mine. I will be disappointed, however, and choose not to participate as customer. If the movers and shakers of DCI believe the creation of a super summer band circuit will have more staying power than the traditional brass and percussion model, then go for it! For me, the uniqueness of drum corps rather than a sameness to an already existing product is what made this activity interesting. It was always "Hey, marching bands, despite many more restrictions, we can still do what you do, only we'll do it far better." Guess that's still the goal, minus the restrictions. Also, we have the Cal band, the Princeton band. They're unique too. But, please tell me that's NOT where this is headed.

That's just it, Jeff. You and I come to this product with preconceived notions about what WAS good and thus, must FOREVER be good. Frankly, the DCI elite's current product has passed me by, BUT . . . it's a work in progress. I do hope to buy-in again soon. The real money lies in whatever product resonates with TODAY'S casual viewer. I truly believe DCI is striving to find a formula it thinks can achieve that acceptance. That product might not include you and I. So be it, I guess. As I stated before, Job One should be to incorporate more palatable melodies.

"it makes me worried that Allentown will be replaced by a dome." Hi, Jeff! Interesting prediction. If we assume DCI-sponsored events, like Allentown, are increasingly headed for "somewhat" ideal conditions, conditions NOT dependent on weather, outside sound influences, have enough voltage, permit unique lighting/smoke special effects, expensive (easily damaged) costumes etc., I believe you are correct. There's a reason why Ringling Brothers circus is now held indoors. Seems to me, the elite of DCI is striving to provide a "spectacle." A spectacle similar to Blast! and comparable to high-end rock concerts. Most likely, a spectacle MOST suitable to live TV and audio/video post production. You know, the elite of DCI is probably right to pursue that vision. It CAN work! Think of all the "wow" Super Bowl halftimes, the opening ceremony of the Olympics. Wasn't the highlight of the Grammy's this year the performance by Pink? I'm in a holding pattern (as a fan) right now. The DCI elite's vision (probably correct) is still at too early a stage for me to be drawn in. What we're seeing is random experimentation. I hope they get it "right" soon.

No, they are NOT selling-out Allentown. Allentown has 16,500 available concert-side seats, but only 9500 seats between the goal lines. They likely DO sell-out those. Plus, Allentown is a rather inexpensive place to operate, so the bottom line can be good.

Well, Grump . . . you are correct on two accounts. The other two events are participant-based. My point was, DCI decided to execute a multi-year agreement with a "willing" host. The agreement made lots of sense to DCI from a financial standpoint. Time will tell if DCI was correct. Too early to throw out the concept. As I stated before, I have attended the past 10 Indy 500 events and am still not tired of that city. A regular location CAN work for enough enthusiasts for DCI to continue. Here's the kicker. I do not plan to attend DCI Indy this summer. For my money, I need more stand-up and cheer (goosebump) moments to justify the expense. Right now, I don't get that from DCI, but that's just me. Thousands of others are thrilled, and that's a good thing. I look forward to the day when I DO want to attend the event. That day will come, and I'll attend no matter where it is.

Indy 500 - ALWAYS in Indianapolis. Kentucky Derby - ALWAYS in Louisville Little League World Series - ALWAYS in Williamsport Daytona 500 - ALWAYS in Daytona The Masters - ALWAYS in Augusta Nathan's Hot Dog Eating Contest - ALWAYS in Coney Island I seem to think "that" formula can work.

I congratulate Bob Jacobs on providing an accurate, well-written, informative, and necessary description of staging a major championship event. A multi-year Indy agreement was a wise move for our activity. It might well have preserved this activity as we know it. Good read !

GUARDLING, I believe PRUDENT drum corps officials do take this site seriously. As for corps organizations instructing their members and parents to stay away, that decision is mostly based upon fear, NOT the value found at this site. There is no way for any corps organization to guarantee someone, somewhere affiliated with it will not embarrass the group, either on purpose, or by naiveté. I am a bit troubled by such prohibitions, however.

Wonderful quotes, BRASSO! To those who believe Drum Corps Planet is no longer important, I ask, what similar site is out there providing an even greater voice for those who have interest in this activity? I'd like to log-on.