Fred Windish

I thoroughly enjoy the "DCA schedule" thread. This is all VERY helpful knowledge. With this new thread, I want to propose a remedy. It's not perfect, not original, but certainly worthy of further thought and discussion. If any of it makes sense, it will be at least next year until it is attempted by a sponsor. I propose sponsors (like Amy) and the participating corps, consider staging TWO (2) shows on the same day. One at, say 2pm, the other at 8pm. There are several plus and minus factors but maybe, in the end, our beloved activity can benefit. Here's the deal for each component: For the corps- Two paying shows on one bus bill. Less practice time but, that "disadvantage" is on ALL competitors. For the sponsor- Two chances to attract an audience (if anyone has a standing obligation elsewhere that night, they can attend the day show). Twice the number of "prime" seats. Seats that satisfy, and generate new fans. Same advertising budget. Almost the same volunteer requirements. Minimal addition facility expense. Chance that media coverage during the day show aids in sales for the night show. For the fans- Flexibility. Chance to see your favorite corps twice the same day in competitive form. One travel bill, two shows. One day show, plus one night show under the lights (there IS a difference). BOTH shows are rain or shine, even if both become concerts. Any thoughts? Note to Liz: pardon all typos, etc.

Ya got me, Liz! Dam# gin.

Hi, guys! As usual, Jeff is correct. I was very much involved then. The Allentown figures are accurate. I prepared and presented the report myself. What's interesting, if we plug-in the 1977 championship ticket prices into Dan's inflation calculator, we can better understand today's predicament. Also, for 1977, we actually REDUCED prices from 2006! In 2006, championship finals tickets cost $7.50 and $7.00. In addition, we introduced a "low budget" ticket at Allentown for $3. There were 484 tickets sold at $3 that year. We WANTED to compare our event wth the night at the movies option. Average price for a movie ticket in that year was also $3. I believe Rick Martin is making a wise decision with his Brigs' events. From what I know, Rick ALWAYS makes good decisions! The Allentown stadium (then) had 16,500 seats available on the concert side, so it's hard to compare with the old Holleder Stadium in Rochester that offered about 6,000 on that same side of the field. Attendance numbers are ALWAYS deceiving. Thanks again, Jeff!

It's always tough to be ACCURATE when thinking of any event 33 years ago, but I'm in position to provide specific detail about the first Allentown DCA Championships, and even the 1976 Rochester Championships (as based upon the actual report as filed by Mr. Bruni). Before I begin, I want to remind everyone, I love having championships in Rochester right now. It's the best decision. 1976 Paid attendance 7,225 1977 Paid attendance 10, 591 (+46%) In 1977, Finals tickets were priced at $6.50, 5.00, and 3.00. Prelim tickets were $3, by the way. Total attendance that year (including non-ticket holders was 12,669. Note: There was substantial advertising, promotions in the Allentown area. Net profit to DCA increased 74%. Hope this helps!

Donnie, I believe that timbale-backed, bass drummer was Joe Murton. Joe still shows up now and then. We a had a nice chat last time Big Sounds was at Albright.

Problem is, those who are involved enough to read and post here, on DCP, are NOT the issue. In my mind, our activity needs to find a posture that appeals to NEW fans, if we are to have a strong future. Your neighbor, who might never have enjoyed drum corps, couldn't care less if there are 5 corps or 10 corps. All they know is "I think I'm going to spend money tonight for a good night out, here's an event that wants $20 from me and everyone in my party. I really don't know what this (drum corps) is, but $20 is a lot more than we would normally spend on a movie, and that movie night is not dependent upon the weather, bugs, and splinters." "Plus, with the movie, I can go in to work tomorrow and boast that I saw the latest "hit" on the big screen." For me, our activity can NOT survive without expanding our audience to the enjoyment of others who have no idea what we have to offer. So. . . the question is, how best can we do that?

camel lips, I just haven't had the same experience in Rochester (stadium area) that you did. I'm sorry you had a problem. I've parked a block away at a neighborhood enterprise, paid $5, was treated with courtesy, and returned to my same condition vehicle with no one giving me a hard time. What I DO see with that stadium are these advantages that are VERY hard to find elsewhere at a similar cost to the DCA organization: Availability of adult beverages Wide selection of food choices Excellent lighting Great video board and PA system State of the art field surface Cooperative facility management More than enough parking within a three block radius 5 minute ride from downtown hotels Weather-protected area for our booster tables Actually, permission for booster tables Surrounding community that tolerates noise well into the night. Protective police department that "gets what we need to do, and doesn't stand in our way." Despite all the positives, I wish the stadium was larger but geez, what other location offers all of the above, and then some?

Marianne, As a 40 year subscriber to Philadelphia Magazine, I miss your name inside. Hope you're well. Also, if you now live in Birmingham, how many times have you been to the Fish Market Restaurant?

I congratulate Bill and the Kilties for their wise decisions (not surprising to me) concerning ticket pricing. Same for the Brigs, and for Carl V. Yes, the nervous economy will have an impact on how many people choose to spend to see our product. Lowering prices is the smart thing to do. The numbers for NASCAR are down about 20%, same for several other admission-based attractions. Drum corps can NOT be expected to be immune from the current crisis. If we all just get through this year, somewhat intact, we should feel a certain sense of relief. I focus on another challenge. That challenge is bringing NEW fans into the fold. The novice spectator, the neighbor next door. Without that kind of ticket buyer, our activity has no future. Raising prices to reflect smaller crowds is NOT the answer, long term. Even with all the "big guns" at your event, it's STILL a "band show" in the eyes of the novice. The novice sees his/her high school band program and accepts, here will be a few more of "that." Of course, they're wrong. BUT. . . . they have to come inside to find out! They will not come inside for anything over $12 per head. Sorry. Give the novices a few exposures at a level they can afford and they WILL pay more, to see more of the same. We all know an evening of DCA is well worth the money. But, DCA's future is not really "us." We've already bought in.

MCL Patrick - Gap-toothed farmer! But, Fat Phil is gone so that could be an upside. (kidding, of course) Ain't SEC football the epitome of college football? No other conference comes close. I wish you a (almost) undefeated season.

You said it, DCC ! I'm a huge college football fan. One of my pleasures at this time is reading all the Top 25 lists and analysis that start to appear about now, before a down is even played. This type of drum corps discussion builds excitement for me and gives me a chance to try and analyze what others have contributed. ROLL TIDE!

Good people who have their sights set in the RIGHT direction! Best wishes, guys and gals.

I really enjoy this kind of thing! Here we go . . . 1. Buccaneers 2. Empire Statesmen 3. Hurricanes 4. MN Brass 5. Caballeros 6. Bushwackers 7. Brigadiers 8. Renegades 9. CorpsVets 10. Kilties 11. Music City Legend 12. Alliance (I reserve the right to make a few changes on August 30)

Well, Rich I always wanted to be myself . . . but with a bigger part! Seems to me, Reading will be the winner for at least the first half of the season. Their structure, work ethic, almost guarantees that right now. They'll be capable right from the start. I have a feeling Hurricanes, Empire, and MN Brass will again be strong. I also think this will be a Kilties' "top ten" year. IF, the corps are a bit smaller, maybe 10% smaller, due to our economy, NO ONE will really notice. DCA still provides lots of bang for your bucks.

Gee, guys. I like these early season predictions. Relax! It's for entertainment purposes only. Here's mine. 1. Maumee Demons 2. Ballantine Brewers 3. Lincoln Invaders 4. Modern Woodman 5. Hershey Chocolateirs 6. Milton Keystoners 7. Assumption of Chicope 8. Westmoreland Esquires 9. Connecticut Yankees 10. Guardner Guards How's that? In reality . . . It would seem the Buccaneers are still the team to beat, so put them in first until someone else proves otherwise.

Hello, John! Well, what I saw WAS a written agreement, but not a lengthy, detailed document. It pretty much said "BVP will do this, in exchange for DCA receiving that." I don't recall seeing any description of what constitutes a "quality" product, acceptable to all (if there ever is such a thing). Always remember, the effort does NOT bring in a million dollars, not even a few hundred thousand dollars. The market for the product is still too small to justify serious expenses for equipment and talent. Both parties DO come out on the plus side, however. Also understand, I have not worked for DCA since 2006, so I could be describing what is long past. My only problem is with the apparent post-production result. Geez, we even had someone on here who claims all editing is done on site, in B roll form. I surely hope that's not the case, because with today's technology, even inexpensive software suites provide many more bells and whistles to easily utilize. I DO believe contracts MUST be respected. If any contract does not lead to the result either party desired, that can only be addressed on the NEXT contract. Your message is much appreciated, John.

Hawthorne Caballeros had a nice thing going with Budweiser. I'm proud to say I, and Don Whiteley, had a big part in making that happen!

Heather, Great news! Tell him that in a few weeks he'll be able to work on his forearm strength. Lifting a few beers has been known to work.

Well, I can offer this much . . . The prior DCA video contract I was aware of was a multi-year agreement. If the current contract is the same, it simply must be honored through its conclusion. The BVP owner is a decent fellow who IS doing his best within the budget, as he sees it. The final product might not meet everyone's standards, but, will it ever? The market for the product, as much as we don't want to admit it, is still rather small. There are also financial limitations on equipment, lenses, mics, etc., that will vary from company to company. Even beyond regular video, some hi-def is actually better than other hi-def, yet they are both hi-def. Also, our production does NOT take place in a studio where conditions can be controlled. For me, the success of the final product is MOSTLY about editing and graphics. I do believe those areas are now lacking in execution. Editing ability and graphics are NOT restrained by cost, but by experience. Has anyone else (within the listed constraints) demonstrated evidence (provided actual product) showing more polish? I just don't know.

Chris, That water effect on the bottom photo looks pretty cool. Can't wait to see it! Best wishes for another successful season.

Good guy. Drum corps was/is a huge part of his life. Ron was a big help in getting Allentown off the ground. Get well soon!

Well, Sayre, I'll contribute what I can. This type of exhibition can be a HUGE benefit to any sponsor who features this group. The local media will be all over this type of performing group if their upcoming appearance is presented properly. The story lines are endless, public interest guaranteed. I just hope our visitors from Ireland have adequate press materials available for use, and an experienced spokesperson to be the face of the group while here.

Jeff brings up some excellent points. Friends and I used to kid about certain out of town jobs and the money they paid. We said, "Hey, if each of us throws $10 in a hat to NOT take that job, we can all come out ahead"! Fielding a corps today is much different than even a decade ago. Just hope everyone can keep up.

Bruckner8 brings up some interesting points. Thanks. First of all, there's no question in my mind DCA (the organization) is all-inclusive. That's a wonderful thing. I've seen it first hand. Whatever corps decides to register Class A (even if a former Open Class participant) does so to be part of the process that determines which similar-sized group does it best. Past history means nothing, since ALL are within the 65 person limit. If their final score happens to be higher than an Open Class (larger) corps, so be it. For DCA to give such achievers a vote at the table (regardless of size) is not only commendable, but a show of confidence in those who judge its product. I believe what Bruckner8 might be alluding to is something like this. . . can a small Star United group march around in Class A and still win High Brass (plus other categories?) for the entire weekend, no matter what declaration? I don't know. In any event, it should be obvious, DCA is trying to do what it can to give EVERY corps a place at the table. That's something to value!

First of all, I want to thank Peggly43 for recognizing what I think is the beauty of DCA. The fans REALLY ARE first and foremost with DCA. I also appreciate discussions like this. They show a certain passion for what I enjoy, and that pleases me. As to the idea of combining DCA and DCI into one massive championship week, I've thought about this, but have come to the conclusion, things are pretty much where they need to be right now. There really are TWO different audiences for our current activity. I doubt very many of the DCI demographic will have enough interest in the DCA product to cause them to double the expense to enjoy their "annual fix" of drum corps. Same can be said for DCA regulars. That said, Indianapolis IS a pretty cool expansion destination for DCA but, really, how much cheaper can it be to fly from San Francisco to Indy vs. San Francisco to Rochester (or Buffalo)? I am VERY familiar with Indy. I go there every year for the 500. It's a wonderful place. There is NO other facility at Indy to host the DCA Championship portion, other than Lucas Oil Stadium. I really don't think DCA can afford that size venue on its own. That's "biggie" number one. Second, DCA, being a weekend activity as Gary pointed out, does require that third day off that Labor Day Weekend affords. Scheduling the DCA Championship (and all of its ancillary components) to any weekend that does NOT include a third day, that most folks are off, is pretty tough. AT THE PRESENT TIME, Rochester is where it's at for DCA in my mind. That city breaks its back to make DCA, and those who love it, happy. I agree, the stadium is too small there but, there are ways to find revenue beyond ticket sales to the venue. Almost everything required of our DCA Weekend can be found in Rochester, and WE KNOW IT! That's difficult to leave. I'll say this, while Allentown once worked for DCA, the current Allentown pales in comparison to what Rochester has to offer to DCA. Rochester has proven to be a SOLID host for what we enjoy. Some other location COULD come along that provides more (I thought Winston-Salem was it) but, right now, Rochester is where it's at. I have a great time there and could go there for many years to come. As spectators, championship really is what WE make it. We can choose to enjoy Rochester (or Indy) for all it offers, or we can choose to stay in our hotel room and order-in pizza. I chose to capitalize on all the Rochester has available and have NOT been disappointed. I'm OK going to Rochester EVERY year! It's something like the Kentucky Derby. Louisville (been there, done that) CAN be a destination worth visiting every year, but that decision is solely on US. I wish Allen Buell and his team all the best weather Nature can provide this Labor Day Weekend!