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We teach our children to live within their means... but anyone who's ever experienced an economic reversal - loss of a job, death of a breadwinner, etc. can tell you that it's much, much harder to adjust your lifestyle down - reduce your spending, than it is to be prudent with new income. The real problem here is no more or less complex than the Glassmen board have repeatedly said. Bingo was very, very good to the Glassmen for nearly 20 years. Then the onset of legalizeed casinos in nearby Windsor, ON and Detroit, and now in Toledo, along with a ban on smoking in all public places in Ohio completely took away that income. Not curtailed or reduced - eliminated. The Glassmen board and management spent energy and resources for several years seeking replacement for that funding without success. So it is that a well respected and successful organization has hit a wall. I am not optimistic for the future, and it hurts, because I want to be.

Garfield, Stu: Thanks much for the participation! Clearly, you guys have given this thing a great deal of thought. Having said that, I would ask you both to re-address this issue with what you've learned about BD and Cadets... I heave never met either of the directors of the corps, but I have the impression that they are both great leaders who've engaged great associates to pursue the goals of the organizations, and I gather their personal styles are greatly different. Decisions have been made over the course of years that led them to where they are today... I guess I'd like to know what has worked well, and what has not, and also maybe what used to work that doesn't anymore. In the case of our beloved Glassmen, Bingo worked great... and then it didn't. So... where do we go from here?

Gary, I'm guessing no one with that info has seen the post.

I think the year was 1972, and I also have it in my head that it was the three or four day trip that 4 or 5 of us Glassmen guys drove my aging Chevy to Whitewater for the first DCI champioship. Probably accurate, maybe not completely, but it doesn't matter that much. One of our guys had hooked up with the Argonne Rebels for the season, and they were staying quite some distance from Whitewater in Delevan (sp?) Wisconsin at a beautiful air-conditioned High School. By shear dumb luck, two of us encountered Mr. Opie, Argonne's Corps Director in Whitewater somewhere, and he offered us a lift back to Delevan to meet up with our bud. During the long drive, we talked Drum Corps, of course, and we hung on Mr. Opie's words trying desperately to learn the secret formula to get our corps to be successful like the Rebels. I'm sure at some level I was aware that there was a mile in difference in the overall talent in our corps vs. the Rebels, and miles and miles of difference in the experience level and education of the two instructional staffs, but for that moment, I sought his wisdom like that was all it would take to lift the 50-member Glass City Optimists to the heights of the elite corps in the country. Mr. Opie was an attorney, and a very articulate man. He seemed very tired, but patiently answered our questions like we were somehow truly worthy of his time and attention. Most of the conversation is lost to the 40 years that have passed, but I remember distinctly, and can still quote nearly word for word one particular exchange, probably because I revealed nearly all of my ignorance and arrogance with one remark. I brought up the Des Plaines Vanguard, who probably finished about 15th or so at that contest, or about 50 spots ahead of where we would have finished had we had the resources to make the trip, and observed that, "They appear to be right on the edge of folding." Mr. Opie paused for a long moment, and then said, "Son, there is not one drum corps in North America that is NOT right on the edge of folding." After another long silent moment, he went on to talk about the challenges of outfitting, transporting, housing and feeding a nationally competitive drum corps. He focused on the terrible costs to the families and careers of the Corps adult leadership, and the parent/volunteers that made it all possible. He also said that many of the corps who seemed to us to be rock-solid would fold or nearly fold in the five years to come. He then pointed out the one thing to me that hasn't changed at all in the past 40 years. He said that 90 per cent or more of the ticket buyers at Whitewater will have traveled there with a drum corps. He closed with this, said more like a sigh than a statement, "Until we can sell out the stadiums so there is no room to seat corps members and chaperones, there will be no financial security for drum corps." Not sure where this all fits in with the thread, but it has given me pleasure to remember it, and to write it down.

Please correct me if I'm mistaken about this, but it seems like the "revenues" that a "9th through 23rd" or whatever corps recieves from show appearances and DCI are relatively small. NOT unimportant to any organization which needs and spends every nickel of revenue, but small. Since it appears that most of the budget comes from "tour fees" (we would have called them "dues"), doessn't it seem to reason that every corps needs additional sources of revenue? The Glassmen Bingo revenue built the corps (it was invested wisely, clearly), and now that it's gone, no substitute is available. This thread is attempting to find answers to this single question: Assuming the Glassmen (and others yet to be named) DO raise the $300,000 to enable a responsible tour for 2013, what will they (GMen and Others) do to raise the needed cash in the future? We already know that the question is easier to answer for a corps with a good recent competitive record, but I refuse to believe that this activity only has room for 6 or 8 drum corps. I refuse to believe that because of the Academy, Music City, and others like them who have started releatively recently. Clearly the medium (as currently defined by DCI and DCA rules) still has great appeal for musically talented performers. Touring the country practicing all day and giving great performance at night... what's not to like? Can audiences be found who are willing to pay a higher price to see and hear the product? Are there tangible benefits to a city or region that has a corps based within? Can those benefits be "sold" to that community for cash? Is there a role to play for colleges and universties? They are not exactly fountains of cash these days either. Can we find "corporate" sponsors who are not in the business of supplying corps and bands? What valuable benefits could accrue for a company who associates its name and checkbook to a drum corps? IMO, these are the questions we as a fraternity must answer.

Naw, just poorly written on my part... I was trying to say that there are a certain few corps that have a larger reputation (and deserve the larger reputation). That in and of itself has not been enough to 'save' some corps of the past. Otherwise, we'd still have the Kingsmen, Bridgemen, Kilties (jr.), and perhaps the best example of all, 27th Lancers. So I think the long answer is not quite so simple as you suggest, that of competitive success bringing money. It struck me that the Blue Devils are talked about in our circles for their competitive success and artistic innovation and the stability of the organization. I am guessing (because I have absolutely ZERO inside information), that the winning and the artistry could not have come into being without having solid organizational strengths, including folks who initiate and nurture an enormous network of ordinary people at home in Concord and throughout the world, who know who the Blue Devils are, what their goals are, and what their track record is.

Where the "annointed 150" marching members call "home" in a World Class drum corps is not the central issue. This IS America, and it IS drum corps. Those two factors add up to this: Kids with the talent and means and desire are going to march ANYWHERE they want to - the staffs will see to that. What I want to know about really boils down to this: The truly national drum corps (insert "G8", "TOC", or whatever shorthand you prefer) have all the same touring and equipment expenses (sometimes a bit more) than everyone else. What do THEY do to keep expanding their base of support? Surely the short answer is, "Everything they CAN do." All you have to do is subscribe to the Cadets email list to see that raising money and making friends for the organization is a full time effort, and no stone is left un-turned. This thread is about discovering the LLLLOOOOOONNNNGGGGG answer... what can corps like Colts, Pioneer, Glassmen, Crossmen, Cascades, Academy, Pacific Crest, Surf, Crusaders (from either coast) etc. do to make friends, cultivate alums, get volunteers, and RAISE CASH? I'll speculate here that it pretty much has to be done in that order.

Whats wrong with $10.00 donations? When our doorbell rings and the local HS band is selling candy or fruit, I make a $10 donation... Why? Because it's more than they make on a $25.00 box of Grapefruit. Glassmen would welcome your $10... in fact the tragedy is really that since we know the goal is $300,000, many of us that treasure the Glassmen (and all the other corps) are so focused on the fact we CAN'T Give $10,000 that we neglect to give the $10 spot. After all, at $10 a pop, it'll only take 30,000 donations, lol.

Cost-cutting is smart for anyone and any organization... But this thread is about gaining recognition and support in your backyard to maximize the resources the corps has to educate, travel and feed itself. I have long admired and envied the relationship the Blue Stars, The Troopers, and Phantom Regiment have with their home town newspapers... Those relationships were secured and are being maintained at some cost to the organization. No, I am not saying they pay cash for the coverage, I am saying someone from the Drum Corps got in touch and STAYS in touch with the media. Recognition in the newspaper, and on local TV and radio stations leads to recognition in the broader community. When the broader community knows who you are and what you do, they respond when you need help. If memory serves me, (and these days that's a major "if"), Regiment had some very serious debt issues some years back. Seems like 4 or 5 years, probably more like 10 or 12. There were articles in the Rockford paper about the issue, all "newsy" and woeful in tone, almost like it were the city schools that had the debt crushing them. Someone PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm certain that however painful it was for corps alums and volunteers and recruits to read this stuff, it no doubt helped Phantom reach out to the community for help in retiring the debt. I also remember 40 plus years ago when the Marion Cadets were a powerhouse corps in Ohio, that they wanted to buy some buses, and they wanted to buy the local National Guard Armory as a corps hall. It was broad favorable coverage in the Marion Star that led that tiny city to raise a bunch of money for the Cadets. Now we need to remember that in those days, most if not all of the members were actually Marion and/or Bellefontaine residents, and that Marion's Corps Director was a Star employee, but I think it pretty much holds water anyway. "Public Relations" is pretty much understood to be advertising you don't pay for. Maybe the more successful corps can share what they do... I think we would be shocked to find out it's just as important to fielding a corps as who is head of percussion (or whatever).

So.... What are other corps doing to connect with their communities? Has it worked?

This is my opinion, based on my perspective... I am 61 years old, and still have a ringing in my ears from rehearsals in small rooms in the late 60's and early 70's. The Glassmen at that time traveled on ONE bus with a converted bread truck as an equipment van, traveled as far as up-state NY and downstate IL for primarily weekend shows in small towns against what then seemed to be a rather small group of drum corps from other small towns. Looking back, there were an enormous bunch of corps... Two definitions from Wikipedia: Esotericism or Esoterism signifies the holding of esoteric opinions or beliefs, that is, ideas preserved or understood by a small group or those specially initiated, or of rare or unusual interest. Esoteric Hubris means extreme pride or arrogance. Hubris often indicates a loss of contact with reality and an overestimation of one's own competence or capabilities, especially when the person exhibiting it is in a position of power. Hubris In those days, we went to great lengths to distance ourselves from anything "School" or "Band", knowing that the music we played, the marching styles we used, the uniforms we wore (and sometimes slept in) were not only different, but in our minds better than any school band, anywhere. The "community" that most of us lived in, was a thriving automotive-oriented economy of nearly 3/4 million people with about 10 or so Fortune 500 companies headquarted here. We had no ties to the community, any part of the community, and although the 600 or so fans (other corps parents and girlfriends) in the stands would hear us announced as being from "Maumee, OH" or "Toledo, OH", I was never really sure why, because no one in either city had ever heard of us then, and it has not changed much in the subsequent 50 years, despite the achievements of the organization. In fact, I suspect the Glassmen are better known in Europe than in Lucas County, Ohio. Each year, the corps performs with the Toledo Symphony (a "world-class" outfit) and at the "Music Under the Stars" series at the Toledo Zoo, as well as a local parade or two. These "events" are better publicized and more widely acknowledged in the Drum Corps world than they are in Toledo. So in a time of need for roughly $300,000.00 to permit the organization to continue its mission of providing resume filler for future band directors, the Glassmen have nowhere to turn except for the other high-priests of the Esoteric, the rest of the choir members, us. Is this Hubris??? That decision is left to you. I suspect you know how I (one of the guilty ones) feel. So what can be done for the Glassmen, if they survive? And more to the point, what can other organizations do that are one failed fund raiser away from folding? Re-join your community. Get acquainted with the band directors, service club leaders, youth authorities, Preachers and School administrators. Tell them who you are, what you do, what you have achieved, what your larger mission is, how they can help you, and most importantly how you can help them. I know what you're thinking. "We can't fly those kids in here from wherever they are for these community events." I'm certain that's true. So you had better have some locals who wear your uniforms and can tell your story. For Instance: "The Oregon Crusaders was honored to have our members perform with the Trisha Brown dance company over the past several days. We thank White Bird Dance, Portland's premier modern dance series, for helping us to be a part of this innovative performance experience." Crusaders "The Concord Chamber of Commerce Executive Board of Directors selects one business every month that has excelled in representing the community and the City of Concord. For October 2012, the selection was the Blue Devils. The Blue Devils has been a member of the Chamber for 27 years -- one of the longest members in it's history." Blue Devils I don't expect everyone will agree with me, but I hope you can point to lots of other examples like these last two (BD's wind ensemble and SCV's dance classes come to mind). What is your favorite corps doing to expand its support base? If the answer is, "not much" get your checkbook out.

I certainly never thought of that - makes perfects sense! And I really did enjoy the performance - Good Luck this season Statesmen!

Saw others comment that the Whitmer Stadium is not the Glass Bowl. OK, maybe not, and so??? Would YOUR HS Stadium been capable of holding a Drum Corps show 2 hours after a deluge of Biblical proportion? Many thanks to Washington Local Schools and Band Parents for stepping up! Gen'l observation of all corps: Extremely talented performers! Ambitious programs! Beware, staffers and programmers of getting this thing to the point where the work necessary to do one of these productions is too much to justify for the ever-shrinking drum corps "season". I have heard some of these kids had nearly a month of "all days" prior to a seven week tour. Seems a bit out of balance. I hope the Statemen crew is REALLY having fun. It was hard to see it as fun, because they seemed to have a case of "Opening Night Jitters" but I really enjoyed seeing the corps, and seeing a SENIOR Corps is a rare treat in our end of the world. Their show will be a lot more fun to do and to watch as the season progresses. Pioneer: Nothing to add to earlier reviews, kudos to the older kids for staying with the program, it can't be easy. Troopers: Loved it, Loved it, Loved it. Sooo good to see them back, and when they get some more guard on the field, they could surprise some people at the end of the night. Crossmen: Wow! A departure for them, and as much as I loved the old Crossmen, this group is doing marvelous things. BAC: A BUNCH of book! In every caption. keep the "fireman" away and clean it up. IMO, the best overall portrayal of a theme of the evening. Bluecoats: Great book, loved the Paul Simon "Boxer", LOTS of potential for improved scoring as confidence increases. Cadets: Yeehah! marvelous music - very few minor tears in tempo, just amazing, and a peak at "state of the art". And I STILL hate the narration. Glassmen: I am an alum - so discount this as you should, but this is much improved over the last several years. I am a little concerned the book's use of recurring passages will begin to be annoying, but I really think that will go away as they expand the whole range of dynamics. I am saying if the knob has from 1 to 10 on it, Gmen played from 4-6 only. when they get this range from 1-9 (Nobody permits 10 or 11 now days) they will really have something musically. I had a good time!

Slightly Off Topic: One of my daughters who never marched in drum corps as a civilian, but played trombone in her H.S. band, went to the Naval Academy. As a "plebe" (their lingo for "freshman") she saw an announcement about the D&B corps, decided that just HAD to be a way of getting out of some duty. The life of an academy plebe is not a pleasant one, and they are extremely busy. To shorten this a bit, she quickly discovered after successfully auditioning, that the D&B Corps was VERY demanding duty all by itself, and furthermore that it is in fact done completely in addition to all other duties of a midshipman. Oh, it is NOT considered acceptable for any midshipman to discontinue ANY duty for which they have volunteered. That very year, Navy played the University of Toledo in football, so we were blessed by a visit here in Toledo by the D&B Corps, and this accorded us some precious time with her. I noted with some amusement that D&B Corps was not a part of her career at Annapolis in subsequent years. She is now Ensign Emily Allert, and she and her husband both fly helicopters for the Navy stationed in San Diego. So if you are privileged to see one of the Service Academy Drum Corps, and they're all very good, bear in mind the sacrifice that those kids are making to participate - it's enormous.

Yes, and I picked the music (for the most part) AND arranged it. Now how pathetic is THAT?

I'm not a creative-type - but I work with them in the web-development business... One of the best designers I work with always wants to start with a complete list of constraints. He says it helps him to more fully engage his brain knowing what he can't do, and even when WE are "the client" and he could start with NO RULES at all, he prefers to write some himself to "constrain" the design process and to sharpen his focus on whatever goals we have set for the design. And how does that relate to DCI and rules? I would say that great show designers (I guess it's design teams now) also benefit from constraints - the dimensions of a football field being more or less standard throughout North America; The height of most marching members in a tall shako and plume is about 7 feet; 11 minutes is, well ... 11 minutes. So I suspect that their creativity is not hampered in any way by rules, and may, in fact, be enhanced. As an arranger in the G Bugle (F-Valve, f# rotor) days, I thought I was constrained by the notes that the horns "couldn't play". I thought that there were time signatures and even chord progressions that marching musicians "couldn't play" (I told you I'm not creative). Funny though, how the Argonne Rebels shattered nearly all my preconceived notions of "couldn't" in one afternoon at Marion, OH. I guess their arranger ( maybe Mrs. Opie, I really don't know) just didn't know quite as much as I did about what "couldn't" be done.

I wanted not to like this review, 'cause I'm a homer, and I really really liked the book. But in re-reading your assessment, I think you're right a LOT more than you're wrong. The rehearsal I watched in the afternoon did spotlight some attention from the brass staff on dynamics and tone control, and I believe that can be and will be improved as the season progresses, but IMO the horns were having such serious issues with visuals that they cannot (YET) focus on producing the musicality that is written into the book. I HOPE they give it time to let the repetitions build up to give the horns a chance to mentally concentrate on music, and that they do not "pour on water" to "fix" the horn line. And yes, apparently Gypsies DO like to dance. Great fun wasn't it?

I completely agree with your review - especially the part where you don't mention obnoxious Glassmen alums! B)

EXACTLY! Scary how good that guard is! Another thing I forgot to mention. Now wait just a darn minute!

My daughter and I just got home from the Toledo show and these are my impressions: 1. Legend from Michigan (two towns were mentioned, I forgot them both ) EXHIBITION I think they showed a great deal of promise. They are well rehearsed and disciplined, and for a small corps with some (but not all by any means) younger members, they acquitted themselves very well. They are doing a lot of things right, which shows extremely good leadership. If they can hang on and build membership and experience, Michigan can be well-represented in Drum Corps again. 2. The Troopers I am certain I wasn't the only gnarled Drum Corps Veteran with a lump in my throat during the Troop's appearance. It was inspiring to see them, and brings great hope that this activity can grow. I couldn't name a single thing they played (which you will see is a pattern for me), but I will tell everyone that they're for real. A full-sized corps with a competent competitive book, and good instruction and leadership. If this is what "taking a year off" can do, here's a prayer that it works HALF as well for those corps finding themselves in that situation this year. Well done, Troop! Keep up the good work. 3. Southwind Lots to be impressed with here. Nice Horn book, and a hard-working bunch of kids. Thoroughly enjoyed their show. New uniforms look great, and I like the return to the conventional shako. 4. Crossmen Wow. What a talented corps. Great guard uniforms, a crisp, tailored look for the entire unit. My first viewing of the Crossmen for many years. I recognize the purpose of the "Metamorphosis" theme - to illustrate an honoring of Crossmen history at the same time a bold new direction - but the "medley" of Crossmen favorites didn't really work for me. It wasn't the worst attempt I've ever heard though, and very well performed - lots of room for growth in scoring in my opinion. All the pieces are there. 5. Cavaliers What a guard! I didn't anticipate liking the Billy Joel Book, but I did like it. To me, the horn line and drum line seemed to be in late season form already. 6. Bluecoats Incredible show - a ton of "stuff" going on at all times - staged very well. They managed to focus audience attention wherever thay wanted to. This will be another watermark season for them. 7. Glassmen As an alum - I always get a little nervous when the Gmen have to follow to corps like Cavaliers and Bluecoats. NOT an ideal thing most times. And I will confess that I visited a rehearsal in the stadium earlier in the afternoon which was OK - the kids worked hard and were receiving concentrated focused instruction, but I just didn't come away from it feeling they were really ready. What a difference in the evening show! It's been widely observed the the book is outstanding - and I agree. Others have said they like the guard uniforms - and I agree. What surprised me (but it shouldn't have) was that the "Gitano" theme was nicely integrated and sold visually and musically throughout the show. I don't think this corps has the raw talent that the Cavs and Bluecoats have, but the show design is the best I've seen from the Glassmen in many years. This could be a very interesting competitive season for the Glassmen as well. Just my opinion - don't confuse me with facts!

Thread titles can be misleading. For some of us - "Glassmen Back in the Day" means: "Bye Bye, Birdie" ; "That's All" ; one bus (half-full), and red and black home made uniforms. Man, I haven't felt this old in .... about 20 minutes.

Matter of fact, my partner and I are doing the website for the air powered car's debut here in the states - watch for it to launch in the next week or so. The site will be accepting refundable deposits on the first 10,000 cars, sold direct from the factory to the consumer - target price - $15,000.00 deposit required - $1,100.00 Some surprising facts about the "CITYCat" (the name they will use here in the states): 1. The engine uses vegetable oil as a lubricant - change recommended at 30,000 miles (no combustion by-products to contaminate the oil). 2. Body is aluminum and fiberglass - very light weight. 3. The range of the vehicle on full air tanks - 170 miles. 4. Time required to recharge air tanks with built-in 110V. compressor - 4-6 hours. One of the challenges the owners will face is there are no "filling stations" built yet. In time, a "Fill-up" of air should take 3 minutes and cost about $3.00. Until then, you will have to plan very carefully. Our strong suspicion is that the vehicle will make GREAT taxi's and delivery vehicles. They should be very popular with fleet owners This week's Toledo Free Press carries an article about hybrid (gasoline/electric) cars wherein a local company who shuttles the elderly to health care appointments around Toledo says they spend $1,000.00 per day on gasoline to run their fleet of hybrid vehicles, but would spend $3,000 a day if their fleet were "gasoline-only" cars. Wish I could toss a link to the new site, but it's still on a tiny little development server, and the traffic from DCP would CRUSH it.

Don't drink the Microsoft Koolaid! Frontpage and all its derivatives will actually prevent your growth as a developer. There are plenty of places one can get inexpensive hosting WITHOUT limiting oneself to just one small part of internet technology.

While it is true that it can be tough to make a living as a web developer, that is really no different than nearly ANY career you can name. As to hosting, my recommendations would be as follows: for a hobby site, a vanity site, or a brochure site (no interactivity) any of the big "bargain" hosting companies are fine. Their uptime is great, the site will NEVER be down. However, they can offer NO service to you as a "newbie", and they must therefore choke down ALL of your options and priviledges to the bare minimum. It is nearly impossible to build anything special of unusual on such a server, because you cannot configure it properly to allow anything at all unusual. If you want to do something other than what I mention above, you'll have to find a host who will work with you, and not against you. This usually costs money, as they have children to feed as well, but it is ordinarily one of your lowest expenses, and it doesn't pay to scrimp in this area. Getting around the limitations imposed on you by $3.00/month hosting will kill you in terms of the time you'll spend getting everything to work. Please feel free to PM me if you'd like the name of the host I use - I called him Christmas Day, 2006 for help with a critical issue, and he took my call and got me the help I needed. Call Go Daddy on Christmas Day (or ANY day) for real help - and find out what you get for $3.00/month.

I was there in Frankenmuth, MI. the night he stole the kiss from Miss America (see the other thread http://www.drumcorpsplanet.com/forums/inde...0960&st=100 ). The Mariner's and Cap'n Crunch... 1972? 35 yrs ago? Say it ain't so!