silvertrombone

Not many MBA's out there, huh? OK, for those who have pointed out: 1.) Unions suck; 2.) Politicians in Michigan suck; 3.) NAFTA sucks; 4.) American quality and work ethics have slacked; Kudos to you. For the guys who mentioned: 1.) Buy American goods for the sake of buying American goods; 2.) Taxes suck and are bad for business; 3.) Bush sucks; <**> <**> <**> <**> <**> Not enough time to discuss for now. Just stay tuned...

Someone teach me how to pull in multiple replies into one email so I stop triple posting. Note: "My" era was the 90's, not today. I neither teach, nor march, nor have vested interest in today's activity. Just a completely unbiased Texan (!). Not bashing the 70's. Question: Most of these 600 were "local" corps, if I remember correctly. As in, Phantom Regiment was a Rockford corps with Rockford kids. Last year that wasn't the case--hasn't been for a long time! That era is over. Every corps today is dependent on national recruiting. Top 6, top 12, D1/2/3--nobody that I'm aware of has a corps based completely within 100 miles of its headquarters in terms of where membership comes from. And how local can you consider 100 miles? So--how many of the kids from those 600 would be willing to pay airfare to travel 1,200 miles 6 times a year? Most of these members were able to work part-time during the summer--impossible today. How many would give up summer income for college, etc? That eliminates the vast majority of members of those corps. NOW we start talking about talent levels. Today's musicians are simply better. I edited this paragraph--I didn't want to justify that fact because there's no way to say in nicely. Let's review: 1.) Better instruments; 2.) Better recording equipment/technology (Internet and digital, for crying out loud--no mono!); 3.) Better musicians; 4.) More DEDICATED membership. Not being ugly--it just takes more effort to drive to Rockford, Rosemont and Madison than the local corps hall. The recordings are better today. It's the music that bites cheese.

Chrome, ugh! Four letter word. <**> Is there an emoticon for peeling paint or fingernails on the chalkboard??

Well, that answers the original question then--the older corps recordings were NOT as good as today. If you take the top 250 players in, say, 1975 (a favorite year in most "old corps/new corps" threads), they were spread out between "600" corps. Someone else's numbers. Today they're concentrated amongst 12 or so corps with a few individuals in other corps. Spread out the talent base and overall quality diminishes. Play on inferior instruments and quality diminishes. Record on mono and quality diminishes. But I still maintain that there are more better players today. Also, not all participate in DCI--there are, for example, probably 4 times as many HS and college musicians in Texas today as in, say, 1975. Many more musicians, much better at the upper echelon, more in the upper echelon, more participating in corps and majoring in music, etc. Then there are digital recordings...

Only one thing to consider: How many symphony orchestras do you know of playing on piston and rotors??? Point: The instruments today are better. So are the musicians and the recordings. I'm not 18, so don't blast me--it's the truth. Fewer corps = trickle up effect. And piston/rotors bite cheese any way you slice it--just the nature of the instrument. I like the music of the 80's and 90's, but that's another topic for another thread! As one expert put it, "so much of DCI today is music written around a drill." IMO, that's the exact opposite of what drum corps used to be. Used to be that you stood still half the time and drill was non-existent--boring! Except the music was fun. Today, nobody knows the music, you leave the stadium not being able to hum anything, and you can't remember the programs a few months later. Boring! This is why a 'Faust' is received so well and why standing O's--the kind where you leap to your feet without really knowing you are doing so--are so rare and applause has lost that "toss the baby" feel--it's kind of, "polite" golf applause now. But the instruments, musicians, and recording (quality) is better today. The rest of my comments are probably best suited for other threads. I edited my earlier comments--sorry if anyone tries to quote them--they're in Cyberspace now.

1.) I marched Sky in '92 and we had (count them) nine vets. None in drums. Show and staff quality, not membership--15th place. Wasn't Rennick our drum caption head?? I know for a fact the '91 Finals version of Sky had about the same number of vets. All a bunch of Texas rookies both years, and probably average age of 18. 2.) PR in '94 only had about 28 vets and we were 3rd--not bad! I think we had 25 Texans, BTW. A whole bunch of former other corps members. 3.) Xmen had, taking info from this thread, 41 returning Xmen vets along with several vets from other corps. Any idea how many and from where?? Then there's the UNT drummers (99-time PASIC champs, or some such number), the Marcus HS drummers (63-time PASIC champs, or so), and the various college musicians from UNT, UT, UH, etc. And if there ARE 95 Texas rookies in this corps, I'll take those 95 rookies over just about anybody else's! Yeah, they're going to be playing Saturday night--or I'LL eat your shorts! I said the day I heard they moved here from PA (along with 2 other Congressional Districts since 1990) Xmen would be back in Finals--prove me right, Bones! Actually, if I were Hoppy/YEA/Xmen, I'd resurrect Songs for Al Gore...er, Planet Earth and trot it right back out on the field. One of the best shows of all time, and now they'll have the chops to REALLY throw down. 10th or higher--anybody else biting?

So are we talking 70's talent level or post 90's? I'm partial to 2-valve King's--when did those come along? Best instruments ever used IMO. (Key word: IMO) Do I get to be perpetually 20 years old in this fantasy or do I have to march as is where is? As in belly as it is, where it is? Do I get to pick which corps? Do I get to wear a kilt? Do I have to wear anything under it? Yes, yes, no--I'm in! Hmm...Phantom in plaid...maybe Mendelsohn's Scottish Symphony? I get to pick the music, too--right?

Just couldn't let that one go unsaid, huh? I thought I'd leave the guy some dignity! :) Saw him at the Dallas show a couple years later and that's how I greet him--with his nickname--at 150 decibels--20 yards away! Oops. Hey Nikk, that's a *really popular video website name inserted here* moment--post it and let us know the name??

Note: Track 3 is titled "The Death of Jazz". Something tells me coincidence. Icarus, Matisse--good call. Got a print of it b/c of PR's '93 show.

Just remember, we're talking about national organizations in terms of the draw today. Pre-DCI it was pretty much local. You've got something like 30 people a year from Texas at Rockford and talent level down here is insane. I graduated hs in '92 and was alternate to Texas All-State and always top 2 in Region. I'd probably be doing great to make the top band today! The state has at least 50 new high schools open since I was in school, all in 5A (big schools), making the 'gene pool' quite a bit more well stocked. And directors are more likely to be DCI vets today than then. Better programs, more interest in marching band and DCI. Where bands here used to be good with a few great ones, the great ones are much more common. This makes DCI better talent-wise b/c they're drawing the best kids nation-wide and have better rehearsal techniques overall. Not bashing old corps--just pointing out that as year-round programs (ie, hs bands) improve, corps improve. Instead of me going up and down my street and filling a corps with city kids, now corps draw from a thousand miles away in all directions. Bad? Bad word--more like more refined or better trained today. Not a knock against the past, just an ever-amazing improvement in talent, technique and teaching.

Didn't read the other pages--someone else may have already pointed out... It's awfully hard to hide ticks when you wear white top to bottom! Yes, I'm biased--cut me and I bleed Phantom. And the fourth position thing and attention with heel in small is pretty cool. Gotta point out that nobody--NOBODY!!--used to beat Regiment in marching. Nobody. For like 7 years in a row, including '92 I think! Hard to hide ticks, so you have to be better. That went out the window in '93 if I remember. All white--who came up with that? How cool?

Since my thread on the topic was, umm, 'moved,' and since this is the first time I have actually seen that emoticon used, I'll ask here. Is that emoticon saying what I think they're saying??? Look carefully at the shape of the mouth--two distinct words. Yikes!

Not only no, hello no--didn't even fill in the poll. Who asked that--Hoppy?

Ahh...my first love! The first time I saw Phantom was at their public rehearsal Finals week right after their 1/4's performance in '91. They returned to Plano, TX's Clark Stadium and had evening rehearsal--in the rain!! What is it with the rain? Anyways, I was King Band-O in high school and fell in love. I always wanted to be in a really great marching band and this set a whole new definition of the word lust for me--wow! First show I ever attended was Finals '91--how cool is that?? Marched '92 at Sky 'cuz I couldn't afford travel to Illinois and did PR in '94--thrill of a lifetime! While in PR in '94, one of my Buick Brothers (baritone for all the uninitiated!) was a music major at UMKC--vocal performance, no less! Tenor, knew the words to Nessun Dorma, and got *cough, cough* "volunteered" to sing Nessun Dorma for us during rehearsal one day. Everybody went nuts! Italian and everything. John Tsosoras, or something like that--anybody know how to contact him???

Well first of all there were only 15,000 in Jackson in '93--great idea, huh? "Kansas City or Jackson?" That whole conversation. But I think that number helps your argument. Pretty sad when 15,000 out-yell 20,000+?? Great comment on re-considering the GE scoring. Its DRUM and BUGLE corps. No offense to guard--you guys are included! 30 to each caption and 10 to GE--not enough points to worry about amps, etc. Result: More exciting, accessible books = more exciting shows = more babies being thrown! What say you? Wonka--great question...stay tuned...

Not exactly on topic, but its drumline so allow me latitude. The PR '03 show where the drumline wedge goes through and, ahem, 'disturbs' the horn block in the Canon reprise...did all the drummers of the world just stand up and go... ^OO^ ^OO^ ^OO^ ^OO^ ^OO^ ^OO^ ^OO^ ^OO^ ^OO^ ^OO^ ^OO^ ^OO^ ^OO^ ^OO^ ^OO^ ^OO^ ^OO^ ^OO^

Oh, yeah--drums! Sorry, but literally nobody beats North Texas in that department! 13 PASIC champions, largest percussion in the world--I'm a brass guy, but it all starts and ends with the beat. Go Eagles! Sorry, not much in the lines of traditions like script TEXAS and such--no 'i' you know, and crossing the 't' just doesn't sound the same. But I'd put the music of my school's band up against anybody. But quite frankly, I'll take Texas 5A High School State Marching Finals any day, and even some of the top 4A and 3A. ^OO^

I know this is just for fun, so sorry to be a party pooper, but consider this. Top 6 with 128 members: 768 members. Top 6 with 150: 900. Difference: 132--goodbye to one corps entirely! Now I realize that there have been many corps go away since the 128 limit went bye-bye, and the biz side of me says that fewer groups with more members equals more efficient operations, but basically you are weeding out the activity. The 'BIG' corps will always attract enough to fill out 150 in any voicing. Does D2/3 grow any larger in this arrangement? How does a corps in Wyoming or Iowa in D1 compete with the top corps for, 1.) members, and 2.) placement? The 'rich' get richer, so to speak. Instead of adding to the already amazing top corps, why not enact some program to assist struggling corps? Crossmen, for example, (and I think this is accurate) wouldn't exist if Cadets didn't step in some time ago. How about Coats take over Capital Regiment? Just a contemporary example, I know there are many considerations and CR is planning on fielding a corps in '08. But what about the others??? Have fun, but just wanted to put a bug in your brain...

Sorry to post so many times. Don't know how many of you saw this--it wouldn't have been on the videos. Classiest thing I have ever seen and leaves kind of a punctuation mark to their leaving the activity that fall. Old retreat, corps leave from 12th to 2nd, the champ gets the field for encore. Everyone else files out, Star plays their goodbye piece and files out, drum major last. He had kind of an odd salute that year--sort of looked like he was showing you where to stick it?? Marches directly in front of the Cadets DM's, turns and salutes. Cadets DM's salute and they all just hold it for what seemed like an eternity......... Star DM, what?--un-salutes? Ends his salute--and BOWS to the Cadets!! Cadets hold their salute until he marches away and end their salute. Classy. No matter what the reception or reaction by fans, that was the last official act of the Star of Indiana in DCI on the field of competition. Simply classy. Anyone else witness that? God, I'd love to have a still photo and video of that moment.

I think the question was about '93? And just because the Chinese army can field 200 million men, does that overcome their 70's equipment and 50's tactics?

I did! King's with Sky--nice horns! I've never played on the piston rotors or anything like that, so I can't speak to those (anyone? anyone?), but King 2 valves were the reason some of the corps didn't jump over to 3 valve right away. Ironic to hear someone talk about Star with regards to equipment. If they wanted it, they would have had it--ever seen their staff bus? 2 valve Kings were great horns. Granted, the new stuff is all Bb, but I'm curious to know what someone who would know says about them. Meaning, anyone play a 2 valve and teach the Bb's today? Don't just think that b/c Star had 2 valve it wasn't by design. If it had been worth the investment, King would have done 3 valve G's. If they did, everyone would have been on those. DEG's don't really stand out in my memory. 3 valve PR.

Couple of points--and this is not to be taken as a bash on the Cadets--'92-'94 Cadets was some of the best drum corps anybody has ever fielded. Awesome guard work, BTW. One of two corps I never beat. 1.) I don't think I've ever heard '93 Cadets mentioned outside of this thread. '87 and a whole bunch of love for several since (I was out from '98 to '04 so I can't speak to those), but '93 probably isn't even on their top 5 all-time. Think of that as complimentary and not a bash--how many corps can list their top 5 years and still have championship years to list?? Good show and I love the ballad--champion that year, but not today. 2.) Where would the activity be today if Star were still fielding a corps? Remember, '93 was the apex of their organization on the field and has positively left its mark for all-times' sake. Cadets is still around, and no offense, but it seems to me that Cavies is driving the bus right now. And there are a whole bunch of you in blue or green or even maroon with rings that would reside in Indiana were Star still around. 3.) I'm a PR guy, so I'm neither bashing nor gloating about anyone else. Heck, we might not even have a tie were Star still around! 4.) I miss Star. Do you think they'll have a Star Reunion Corps for Finals next year??? If you will consider alum of other corps, put me in on the Bari/Euph's!

This is a great idea, but doesn't work real well in the water! Going to swim a quick mile and all I'll be wearing is a speedo!! Don't worry, the knee-length version.

Remember, guys--there are a lot of people in DCI who are music majors at the top schools. But there are about 4 times more at those schools who aren't interested in DCI or marching band in the least. Some do MB b/c it is required 3 years (UNT), others do it b/c they like to. MB doesn't have an age-out limit, so someone who did 3 years at DCI and is still in college and really likes to march could still be in MB. I did three years at UNT MB--great PLAYING band. IU and a few (several?) others would probably fall in the same category. Better? Marching, no--12 hours / day does wonders for DC's. But playing? I'd certainly put the top 6 PLAYING bands in the college ranks up against the top 6 DC's any day. Perfect? Certainly not--again, 12 hour rehearsals. But it would certainly make an interesting stand-still performance!

OK, so another 15 each go to the top 6--what does that do to everybody else? I would have thought that would have failed 13-6. Bus space?? Listen, overhead isn't that big of a deal--meaning, if you can cover cost of director, facilities, utilities at corps hall, etc with 135, that extra 15 times revenue sure looks nice for the top 6. And feeding another 15 four squares is nothing. This equates to 15 x $2,000 = $30,000 in gas money, unless someone can explain it better. Am I the only one who thinks this benefits the top 6 most? Not sure why this is happening. Something should be done to keep Magic and Blue Stars on the field, etc. Not send another 90 to the 'Bigs.' Comments? Explanation? And remember--I'm a top-6 vet for cryin' out loud!