BX5CM

Do we know this for a fact or are we guessing here? Is there research that shows why kids decide to do a particular corps or another? My guess is that cost is probably the primary factor in picking an open class corps, I know it would have been for me had I chosen to do one. One big selling point of DCA has always been that you can have a "real life" and still do drum corps. Who is to say that the kids of a junior corps wouldn't buy into that as well? It would be a change for them but what choice would these groups be left with? Either stay in a circuit that "supposedly" is more about youth education where the corps get NO appearance fees (which if you check any i-990 of any corps, you will see accounts for a HUGE percentage of their income,) or go with a circuit that will actually pay them and allow them to continue to pursue their respective missions of educating kids even if that is not the primary focus of the entire organization at large? Why are we pretending that Open class in DCI and DCA are SOOOO different? I don't think that they are and I think the juniors could be easily adapted to all-age corps.

Very cool map Ron, thanks! I'm not saying that this would be the best option for EVERY SINGLE open class corps, or for DCA should a large number of corps decide to come over. DCA growing past its means would be something to avoid. Also, how do you know that the current top 10 in DCA would not remain there? That seems like something that would be impossible to predict. A good number of the Open class corps, in my opinion, produce results below that of the best all-age corps, and the numbers they receive would tend to reflect that. Regardless of the circuit a corps getting a 75 at DCI Open championships sends a clear message that they wouldn't be able to hold their own against a corps that scores a 95.00 at DCA Championships.

I hardly think it's that simple Jeff, and I have a feeling that you know that better than most people. I am SURE the corps of DCI losing money, has much less to do with A&E then it does with the exorbitant cost of constant touring. If you review the i-990 forms of most of the DCA corps (I've looked at a few) there would be no problem in them affording this... also, let's also point out that a good number of the open class corps do not appear to be utilizing the extensive electronic and amplification systems that the big boys use. There are still many corps in DCI that either do not use them every year, or not at all. This prediction that A&E would be a big roadblock to DCI does not appear to have come to pass. And like I said, it would be an incentive for the Open class units to be able to use the equipment they already possess. It would be MORE foolish in my opinion to force those junior corps to scrap all that "expensive" equipment, not good financial sense.

Saying "many other people feel the same way" is a tactic called weasel words...how many other people specifically? Just saying that it's a general consensus while providing no proof isn't helping your argument. In my opinion, it's really getting too late and things are becoming too dire to argue semantics about what drum corps is and isn't. With that being said, THANK YOU for bringing up a REAL issue that DCA would have to address if they invited the juniors in... amps and synths that are already allowed in junior corps. My personal predicition (and hope!) is that most of the staffs of the member corps in DCA would realize that the benefits of allowing practically dozens of the juniors corps in to DCA would far outweigh any philisophical issues against A&E. This is a no brainer in my opinion... the choice between increasing DCA's member units by A WHOLE LOT by allowing them to keep the equipment they already use, or keep them out and let them die because we don't like amps? Seriously???? Talk about a GROSSLY disproportionate argument in my opinion.

Oldstyle... Based on the way I am reading this G7 proposal, DCI might be changing to completely cut out the Open class corps from any financial benefit of particiapting in DCI shows. With that being said, the question I originally proposed was what changes would need to be enacted in DCA to accommodate them? Keeping them both the same isn't even part of this discussion as one might be radically altering their approach to the activity. To answer YOUR question... what reason would you have to create a separate division in DCA? Perhaps if these Open junior groups decided to still tour, then changing DCA to add a junior division would be on the table. So basically if DCA were to allow these groups to have weekday shows and tour all over the place, they would have to radically alter THEIR mission into something like DCI where there are weekday shows and touring. It's probably not impossible but infinitely more difficult than simply having the junior groups participate in the current DCA structure. What reason would there be to NOT have that happen? Most JUNIOR Open class corps already have limited touring (usually no more then 2-4 weeks) and rehearsal schedules similar to the Open class DCA corps (typically weekends unless they're touring those few weeks.) Also, Blue Stars, Scouts, Troopers, and BAC would probably not have any incentive to particiapte in a DCA show... They all fall within the "AA" or "A" classifications of the new DCI were this change enacted. They would still get SOME money from DCI, however small an amount... the Open class corps will not. The issues here are providing these Open junior corps with a performance venue and more money than they would get from DCI under this new structure.

This has been dealt with for many years in DCA. Many college kids who do DCA are already back, or in the middle of moving back in to school when DCA finals happens... if the kid wants to make the schedule work, they do. Non-issue. Next!

Agreed Jeff... quite honestly, I think DCA is right on the money calling themselves Open and A. If we're looking at it the way most of the activity defines the words "World" "Open" and "A", no DCA corps would be considered "World" class. That's not intended as a slap to DCA or any particular corps, but in my opinion it would be impossible for any group to achieve World Class results if we're using the World class of WGI or DCI as the paradigm (as does the entire activity)... just based on the amount of rehearsal time they get. Most true "World Class" units in indoor rehearse a lot more than that, as do the World class junior groups in DCI obviously.

I personally marched with an entire contingency of kids from Harrisburg who drove 3 hours each way to get to Cabs. There was another group from Harrisburg that went to Bush... again 3 hours. Are there really kids who come across the country for an open class corps? Is this rampant in the Open class? I don't know much about juniors so I could be wrong, but I was under the impression that most of the Open class corps attract kids anywhere from 0 to 200mi away, just as the best all-age corps do. Based on what I'm reading, the World class will not be as greatly affected by this change as the open class... with that being said I believe the open class junior corps would probably benefit the most from DCA membership.

That would be if the World Class groups were going to be affected by this proposal. Based on what I'm reading in the proposal, it sounds like many of them probably won't be. The corps that would be most greatly impacted are the Open Class corps. Based on what I have seen, I think many of the all-age corps would have no problem competing with the Open class juniors as they tend to be smaller and from what I can tell tend to produce results similar to that of the all-age corps in DCA.

That would be fine too, but what I'm talking about is integrating the juniors into the regular all-age competitions. No need to seperate them, there is nothing keeping them apart except the fact that the juniors tend to get more rehearsal time. If they were put on a weekend-only schedule, the playing field would be as level as it is now, in my opinion.

I doubt very highly that if the DCI groups were put back to a weekend schedule that they would be ANY better than the top DCA groups. The point some people might be missing (including kids that think all-age drum corps isn't worthy of their time) is that the main thing setting DCI and DCA apart is REHEARSAL TIME. Those junior kids rehearse day in and day out 5-6 days a week. If the DCA corps were able to have a rehearsal schedule like that, they would achieve results either close to or just as virtuostic as the juniors. When put on a weekend-only schedule the exact same types of stamina concerns that happen through most of DCA's season would plague the junior groups. They are younger, but they are still human beings that must be physically conditioned every year to make it through an entire show. I think the change would be such that even the best junior corps staffs wouldn't be able to get the same results that they would if the kids were rehearsing on a junior schedule.

Bob, Perhaps I wasn't specific enough... I was talking about the corps that might not benefit from this proposal changing their schedule to weekend-only. Also to address a few issues before you... yes, DCA would probably need more judges as well as increased number of performance venues. However remember this... DCA corps are allowed to sponsor competitions just as in DCI... I feel this issue would probably be taken care of by more corps volunteering to move the competitions they already sponsor over to DCA. Also, regarding the issue of performers coming from every which corner of the world... I know of several of senior corps that have members coming from other countries. It's not as frequent as in DCI, but it DOES happen... the Hawthorne Caballeros had a member from Japan in 2007 and they usually have an entire contingency that drives EIGHT HOURS ONE WAY from Canada. I'm sure it would be challenging, but it's not impossible.

I've seen the same thing as Buff described... it's usually #1. The kids don't have any respect for the DCA corps as they do not get quite the same results as DCI corps. #2. They have been taught by outside forces, be it the staff from their junior corps, marching band, parents, peers, etc. that senior corps is bad and lame and full of a bunch of drunk, hacky old guys. But DCA isn't the same as it was 10, 15, even 5 years ago. I think if the members of any of these corps gave it a chance they would see that it might not be how they perceive it and if their whole organization was coming over to DCA, I have a feeling many of them would. Just my .02

Hopefully if it's an entire corps coming over, there will be less of an issue with that Buffy.

I know this might be a controversial suggestion, but if the G7 proposal does pass, has anyone thought of what it might do for DCA? Obviously from the looks of things there are going to be cuts to the number of junior corps if this proposal passes. However, I sincerely believe any of DCI's open class corps would be welcomed into the DCA arena with open arms. If this were to happen, what types of changes would have to be enacted in either DCA or the corps themselves to fit into the all-age activity? As far as I can tell, there wouldn't need to be any change in the membership age of the corps... they may choose to remain a youth organization and still compete in DCA, right? Would anything else really be affected? Just putting it out there. It sounds like this change is coming and if DCI truly DOES have to "lay off" some corps, I sincerely hope that DCA would make every effort to accommodate as many of them as possible.

What a wonderful problem to have. Congrats Gold!! I'm supremely confident this will work itself out, wish I had money to help. :(

What no blacktop??? Who are you and what have you done with the Bushwackers??? Sounds awesome guys, even though this year's corps will no longer have benefit of that "character-building" heat on the blacktop, I'm sure the corps will be awesome! Best of luck!!!

Agreed, and while I disagree that a DM is a requirement for any size group... the designers of said group should have full knowledge of how to compensate for that lack of a DM. I witness several groups per year in marching band where members turn backfield with no backfield DM. Those members must march with no one to watch, and sometimes even with no one to listen to (or too few instruments to be audible to the marching members) and quite naturally tempos and feet go all over the place.

WOW, I think we just figured out where half the phasing problems in drum corps come from. It's very important to know which you should do in any given circumstance and to have the CORRECT information. Typically if the majority of the corps is in the "power zone" (between or in front of the hashes, and between the 30's) it's safe to listen back to whomever is furthest backfield. However if you are outside of that zone, typically you will only want to watch. Also, at least once a year I witness a group that has members in a part of the field where there is no way anyone could see a DM or locate a pulse-center by listening due to their location. This creates a no-win situation where the members have no one to watch, and no one to listen to, therefore feet and/or music are out of time. This happens much more often in the marching band world however it's not unheard of in corps.

Me. I had to work during the summers when I was in school and could not the time or the money commit to junior corps. I marched my rookie year (which would have been my junior age out year) with the Reading Bucs in 2000.

VI-DE-O!! VI-DE-O!! VI-DE-O!! VI-DE-O!! VI-DE-O!!

Good call Buffy. :)

The page opens, but the link to the midi seems to be broken :(

YESSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes! Exactly... there is no such thing as a show that was successfully designed JUST for judges. People think too hard about it... just tell a story or show the audience something in a creative way that is well-constructed and clear... that's always been the beauty of the team you work with out there in M-burg. That's all you have to do. OMG, did we just agree again? I'm scared! :)