roosevelt

Or you could create your own new path and leave everyone else in the dust. That is what the cadets did in the 80's, the blue devils in the mid to late 90's, the cavaliers in early 2000's, and the Blue Devils again did as of late. Copying what is working might get you a title or two, but making your own formula for success will make you a dynasty.

Umm. The previous brass charts DID have FFF on them. The staff didn't know how to make groups play out or did not believe in the importance of it.

I know a lot of kids who were in the line last year who were not from UNT. Rennick draws talent from everywhere.

The Cavaliers get plenty of respect on here.. or at least they did. They used to be everyone's favorite corps, but winning a lot will get you out of favor pretty quick. Hopefully they will keep designing shows like they did last year and people will begin to like them more and more again.

Obviously Cavaliers are not a dark horse, but they are flying under the radar on here a bit. Everyone likes the idea of an underdog and everyone wants to see a new champion, so the obvious DCI darlings as of late are going to naturally be Bluecoats and Crown. HOWEVER, at the audition camps it is my understanding that BD and Cavaliers are having plenty of talented members returning and plenty more talented members auditioning. So, I imagine they will both have tons of talent in those corps (BD the same as last year since I don't know how you top the talent they had last year and Cavaliers MORE than last year since I understand that the corps was pretty young in some captions). I also imagine that coats and crown will have plenty of talent in their corps this next year too. So, it should be wide open and I am anxious to see how each of these corps design their shows. To me, that will be the deciding factor.

Man, I have never thought about betting on drum corps like horse racing. I really want to do that now!

It is all about achievement. It is not so much about perfection, but about what and how much is achieved. If a corps has an easy show and plays it perfectly and another corps has a difficult show and performs it very well (reasonably close to perfection) and the more difficult show will get more credit because more was achieved. Now, if a corps has a really difficult show and they can't do it then very little is achieved an the cleaner corps will win. There is a saying in the judging community that "you can't argue with clean" and that is very true. BUT you have to take into account the what, the how, and the how much in the equation. Typically the blue devils don't have the most difficult shows, but they are miraculously clean. Conversely, you have groups like the cavaliers and the cadets who typically do have really really difficult shows, but have noticeable flaws. BD wins more often because they are usually much cleaner, but the years where the cadets or the cavaliers are pretty close to (or are on par with) the blue devils, they are pretty tough to beat.

Agreed. I was just pointing out that there were other groups involved. All too often people automatically want to blame the blue devils when anything goes wrong when there are plenty of groups that have individuals that act a fool.

I don't understand this. I have spent time around both corps and to me they are two of the most alike groups in DCI. Both groups treat their members great and make that their number one priority. Both groups sleep more and rehearse less and believe that is a big key to their success. Both corps have a more laid back approach to rehearsing than anyone else in the activity. I know that some people say that The Cavaliers don't care about competition, but these is complete and total BS. They care A LOT about competition, just like the blue devils.

There were lots of groups that were holding over. BD, BK, and Bluecoats were for sure 3 of them. There was a lot of stupid behavior that night from a lot of corps. The current (very lame) retreat format that was adopted in 2009 is a reaction to that. A lot of groups play these games. Honestly, in my 25 years of being around drum corps I can say that it happens everywhere. Now, that does not make it right at all. Quite frankly it is one of the things that really bothers me about the activity, but I am also not one to say that only these corps are the ones that play stupid games at retreat or at the gate and these other corps don't, because I know better. When it all comes down to it, these corps are comprised of 150 young people (16-21) and like most large groups of young people there are going to be some individuals who insist on engaging in stupid behavior that reflects poorly on the rest of the group.

Maybe, but I can tell you that most if not all of those corps at the top encourage kids who don't make it to march somewhere else to get experience. I honestly believe that kids who have never marched that audition for the top tier groups do so not because they want to win, but because they want to be in that specific corps. I do know what you are saying though about kids who only want to march in the one corps and will not even consider another place. It is kind of silly, but it is also their choice and they are free to make it.

No. It's really not.

I agree with everything you said. Especially the last part.

Agreed.

I think that depends on how you mean "treated." Do they care for the member's well-beings? Absolutely! Are they going to travel well and be well fed and nourished? Without a doubt. It's just that they will work the members so hard that it can be perceived that they are not treated AS WELL as the blue devils and the cavaliers who tend to sleep more and rest more than the cadets. I think this is also a reason why you see more injuries from them than some of the other corps out there (that and their approach to technique). By no means do I think the cadets aren't treated well, I am just saying that the I believe that the members of some other drum corps are treated better. In the end, I respect the cadets as much or more than anyone because of their work ethic. I believe that in George's mind, treating the members well is teaching them the value of hard work and not coddling them. So, it is just a matter of how you look at it.

Have you marched or worked with BD, Cadets or Cavies? Do you think the talent is the sole reason why they win? Do you think they would get the talent if they didn't treat people great? I think the reason that BD and Cavaliers get the best talent is because they treat people well. Combine that talent with their staff and design team and that is a recipe for success. The Cadets don't get the best talent... they also don't treat people as well IMO as some of the other corps. They do however work unbelievably hard and win a lot because of their work ethic. You say "ringchaser" like it is a bad thing. I don't understand why people think it is bad to want to win. Often times i see the same people who refer to people as "ringchasers" in a negative light turn right around and complain about how their corps is not finishing / scoring higher. To me that makes no sense.

I am pretty sure he was joking.

I am sorry, but how many championship corps have you been in? I been around quite a few drum corps the last 25 years (both championship and non championship, finalist and non-finalist corps) and in my experience the biggest difference between all of them is that they championship drum corps all treated their members BETTER than anyone else. THE REASON that the blue devils and the cavaliers win so much is because of how well they treat their members IMO. Now with that being said, some of the corps that are the "big boys" may not be the most welcoming places for folks, but I would never say that the all of championship level corps care about winning first and the members second. Finally, people that go to corps to have a great chance at winning shouldn't be looked down upon IMO. There is nothing wrong with wanting to be a champion and I think that everyone should go find the corps that offers them what they want. I had a student of mine that wanted to win and went to the troopers to get some experience so he could go on to another corps. He ended up loving it and stayed there until he aged out. I also had a student that went to a non-finalist corps and after a year wanted to be around people that were better and had a championship mindset, so he left and ended up getting a ring. There is nothing wrong with going to the corps that is going to give you what you want. If don't care about competition and just want to be in a family atmosphere than there are corps out there (kind of), and if you want to go to a corps that is going to go out there with a competitive mindset, than there are corps out there for that too.

Sounds a little fishy. I am not sure how someone would have the chance to audition for all of those corps in one season not to mention some of those corps do not do contracts.

I would go back there for another camp AND audition for the second corps. Audition camps are tricky for staff. They have to listen to tone of people (often times more people than really have time for) and they need to try and teach some technique and make the camp educational too. The elite corps wont have any of the show written yet, so there is really nothing to do but audition people and work on technique. Finally, a lot of the staff will be stand-offish at those top tiered places because there are too many people to keep straight and they don't want to get too close to folks yet since over half of the folks there will not be at the next camp. Anyways, go to both corps and audition. It is your money and both of those corps will understand. My bet is your experience will be a little different the next camp.. if it not you know what to do.

You are right! They sound freakin great! Blue Devils (who I usually don't care for) sound unbelievable.

Just got home and saw that mine had arrived too.... I ordered mine this week and had it priority shipped.

So, after totally talking down to me we have Donny Allen (brass caption of pioneer last year) and Jim Wonderlick (from some small obscure corps out in california) come out and say differently. So I am going to go ahead and re-post this: Now we can see why people got all hot and bothered by the bluecoats last year because they were clearly cheating and got caught doing it. Should we have the ability to remote mix? Absolutely. BUT there were numerous times last year when people on here and at shows (including judges tapes) talked about the electronics being out of balance while lots of folks mentioned how the bluecoats seemed to have it much more dialed in than everyone else.... now we can see why that was the case and I think it is clear that they did gain a competitive advantage from doing so.

Thanks, but I try to avoid Tony at all costs....:/ I do hope they clarify things though and I hope that they set a side a place where people can mix from up top while not on a cell phone or walkie talkie

Hmm. Well, I have worked with a couple of drum corps the last few years and I heard the same thing at each place from different folks. It sounds like some people are not being consistent with their information from corps to corps.