709

Frankly, I just don't know the answer to this question. But I just went to the website, and they have only announced their design staff, everything else says TBA.

It sure sounds like another example of DCI devaluing the lower tier corps.

I don't remember them being incredibly loud (that is how I remember 99 BD for instance), but I don't think they were noticably quieter. That being said, I think you bring up an interesting example, because I don't think anyone can listen to BD playing Nightpiece for Saxophone and Orchestra and say, "well that just isn't the drum corps I used to love." That chart was pure, old-school, smoking drum corps, until the end when they went all psycho on it. Just my opinion, but I'd put that minute up against most comparable minutes from earlier eras any day.

As far as I know, Rarick was the full percussion guy all season. I remember McIntosh saying something about how he thought Rarick would be a good replacement, but I might be wrong. Bluecoats have had a lot of staff turnover in the past few decades, aside from the brass staff. I think that retaining the staff from that year is a great step toward creating a sense of continuity for years to come with a very capable group of designers. At least I'm keeping my fingers crossed!

Blasphemy!! How about Danny Carey?

Well that is just awesome! It doesn't change what I think about anything else I said, but seriously, awesome!

No, but now I desperately want to. Have you heard Karn Evil 9? That might work!

I understand the reasoning behind their change in look in 87, but did the uniform alone help them produce a more effective visual program or help the scoring and placement? I respectfully deny that it did. Would Bluecoats 07 show been any less or more effective and/or fan friendly if they had kept the more classic look from 92-06? I just don't buy it.

So there are legacy fans on this thread who are fighting for G horns who have marched approximately 42 distinct seasons of drum corps? I want to meet your mythical legend, and shake his/her hand!! That being said, age and experience have a correlatory relationship with wisdom and knowledge, not a causational one. To be old, or to have marched a long time ago or a great number of seasons does not make ones opinions more valid than anyone elses. I think all sides of this debate could benefit from a little more civility.

I love continuity. I believe that is the most important thing to a successful staff. This is a good step. I don't know what anyone else thinks, but I thought that the ridiculously last minute drill that Fairbanks wrote for the 09 coats was a great improvement in producing visual effect from the last two years. Visual effect from drill and color guard seems to be the coats weak point over the past few decades, so hopefully this will help the coats reach that next level, where they are consistently competitive with the top groups in the activity. And who doesn't want more corps competing for the ring every year?

I realize that you probably know what it really means, but I reject the premise that individuals have the right to change the definition of a word, and use it however they choose to. If you say groove people immediately understand you. If you say bop, people might believe that you are using the word with its real definition and actually misunderstand what you are attempting to say. It is admittedly a petty point, but a pet peeve of mine. People will take you more seriously if you are well spoken. On a related note, I don't think Dark Side of the Moon would work at all. One of my all time favorites, but without words there isn't a whole lot going on musically. Not to mention that the album would essentially be a 40 minute ballad; not exactly exciting. Now Karn Evil 9, that could be amazing!

So...you are saying... that DCP... isn't a place... for wild, unfounded speculation, criticism, and negativity? I thought that was the only reason DCP existed!

I'm glad Spirit is changing their uni's, because I wasn't a fan of their most recent uniform. But I don't think that their previous uniform hurt them competetively, and I don't think changing it will help them. Maybe in recruitment, but on the field, does anybody actually think that the corps uniform (not colorguard) effects scoring or a show's effect?

" bop n. A post-World War II style of jazz characterized by rhythmic and harmonic complexity, improvised solo performances, and a brilliant style of execution. intr.v. bopped, bop·ping, bops 1. To dance or move to the beat of this music. 2. Slang To go: bopped off to the movies. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [short for bebop.] " Bop doesn't mean what you are using it to mean. Groove is fine, bop is a very specific term which doesn't refer to what you are trying to refer to. That being said, the idea of trying to get a drum corps to have similar qualities in performance as an orchestra accompanying Eminem is just something I don't ever want to see. I don't even want to see the orchestra accompanying Eminem, because I don't want to see Eminem. I'm sure that a lot of people like him, and Jay-Z, and hiphop in general, but I'm not one of them. If what you mean is that we need more shows with a groove section in them, like 2000 Cavies had, then I might agree, because that was great. However, I think diversity is important, and if every corps show peaked with a big groove section, it would get old really quick. If what you mean is that we need more shows that actually contain hip-hop/r&b/funk/rock songs, well I just disagree. I don't think that would attract more fans, and I don't think that most of the current fans want to see it. Personally, I don't care about recruiting more fans from the general public, and I don't understand why some people keep talking about how doing this is so important. I want the activity to become more accepted as a serious art-form, and therefore want to recruit fans from the educated. I do realize that this is my opinion and it may not be popular.

Seeing as how the OP said IF the scouts make finals, not when, then I would say that everyone posting about how the cart is in front of the horse is missing the point entirely. IF a corps makes finals that wasn't in finals last year, then someone has to be out. It makes sense based off of the news of the past few weeks that Scouts might be a front runner in the finals upset crowd from semis. People just like to yell at strangers when they disagree with them on the internet because they know there won't be any consequences. In any case, I don't think that Scouts will make finals, but IF they do, I'd have to say that I think Troop or Gmen would be out, though I'd rather see Gmen out than Troop.

Tougher and tougher to recruit guard members. I thought that I was pretty clear in what I meant. I know they have a huge following and have produced very likeable shows, if you notice I didn't claim otherwise. I don't think anything is broken either, and I didn't say that there was in my post. What I meant was what I said. That the increase of numbers allowed in corps, and therefore the increase in guard numbers in all corps, combined with the increase in male guard memebers in other corps that traditionally didn't have that many male guard members has led to Madison having a tougher time recruiting guard than they used to. In 88, if you wanted to march guard and were a guy, how many spots were there for you in DCI? Compare that number to today's number, and I would venture to guess that there is increased competition for recruitment. Add in a couple of down years, and it has to be hurting them. I don't mean this as an insult towards the corps, I love Madison and I thought their show this year was great. I'm just trying to figure out why their guard scores seem to be below placement for the last decade, and this seems to be a logical conclusion.

I've been thinking for years now that Madison's guard problem, if they have one, is with the all male aspect. 1. Cavies are so close, geographically, and have had so much success in the period of Madison's struggles. 2. Other corps which traditionally have had few male quard members having more and more every year (Phantom for one, also very close to Madison). 3. The increase in numbers of 128 to 135 to 150 means that they have even more spots to fill. I do not think that Madison should become coed, I love their tradition, but it has to be getting tougher and tougher every year. There is only so much that a new staff could do for that. A new staff could increase the level performance, and that would help recruitment, but it will never be as easy as it used to be for them.

We have a difference of opinion in terms of the tone quality of these instruments. Fine. Variety is the spice of life, I guess. However, I hardly think that more accurately represents means equivalence. My opinion also, so take it or leave it. Trombone players may have a different technique as a rule, yet they still play in drum corps, to varying levels of success I'm sure. So when you say that trombonists have a cold sound or more distinct articulations when they are playing a euphonium (I'm assuming you mean euph, because of the ensemble you mention) , the first thing that comes to mind is, 'okay, so what?' Trombonists play in drum corps already, so this seems to me like it might be a moot point. I think brightness is a measure of high overtones. A trumpet/soprano will always be brighter than a tuba, because it will have more high overtones, though the tuba may be very bright for a tuba by having more high overtones than other tubas. Lets not compare the overtones of instruments with drastically different pitch orientations, as it is useless to this debate. What I attest is that a Bb trombone is a brighter sound (in a good way) than a Bb marching baritone or euphonium. I think that any difference in articulation could be fixed through a change in approach to the attacks, but I admit that as a bass bone you probably have a leg up on me and the rest of the yahoos on here in this particular debate. However, expertise is never an excuse for being rude. I don't understand how it could ever be a better option to act like a jerk to another human being than to do the opposite. Lets have a debate, that is healthy and constructive. But as soon as you become rude or mean about making your point, you lose credibilty, which in your case is very sad, because you seem like a very knowledgable person that I would enjoy discussing this with if you could just try to be a little more civil.

I don't want drum corps to be bandAnyone that does should go take a long walk off a...well I guess it doesn't matter how the long the cliff is, but they should definetly throw themselves off a cliff. You make gigantic assumptions about my point of view that are baseless in my opinion. I was certainly not seriously intending that DCI should add trombones, though I think they would be more appropriate than synthesizers, as well as harps and bassoons. Maybe that is how my posts appeared to you, and I apologize for not being clear. In any case, I stand by EVERY WORD of my initial response to your response. It is a logic fallacy to jump to these conclusions. Adding these instruments would mean entirely different things to the activity; they are not the same, in the least. I am not sure what my intention was for starting this thread, aside from the fact that the tone quality of a trombone would be a welcome addition to a drum corps these days, as I believe it would make the current corps sound more like the old corps in regards to tone quality in the low end. Just my opinion, though, like a lot of you, I do have a few pieces of paper that say I am an expert in related fields to this discussion.

Well that seemed a little rude. I said closer too. Please, take offense to something I actually said. You may be right about a difference in articulation, but that could be taught out of a section. I was referring more to the tone quality of the instruments, and I respectfully disagree with your assessment of the old G's being darker. To me, the low brass of the old lines was much brighter than todays lines. Brightness meaning presence of overtones in the sound.

Well, that seemed a little rude. I am saying that, in my opinion, the bone is closer to the old G baritones than todays baritones. You may disagree with that, but if you do agree with it then adding bones would make the corps sound more old school. Harps? Bassoons? These instruments are inappropriate because: 1. you can't march with one effectively. 2. you certainly couldn't look good while moving with one. 3. are not brass instruments, and wouldn't blend with the ensemble well. 4. are not traditional. Reason 4 applies to trombones, and probably reason 2 to a lesser extent. Saying that bones are the same as harps and bassoons in this context is what we call in a real debate, a logic fallacy. Perhaps you could take a cue from Zentropa on how to disagree in a civilized manner, or better yet, actually offer an argument as to why you disagree. If I wanted to ruin something, I'd suggest that we use bassoons instead of rifles next year. That would most certainly ruin the bassoons anyway.

Nice. My name is Turd Ferguson. Seriously though, the baritone is so mellow and woofy compared to the trombone, and the euph can't hold a candle to the king of instruments, the bass bone. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXTfugqnq5s I have no idea who this guy is, but I just found it on youtube, and it has some power.

I just thought of this after reading and participating in the drastically off topic thread on hornlines being too loud. The trombone is the concert/marching band instrument which most accurately has the sound of the old G bugles in my opinion. I know visually that including them in a modern DCI hornline could be a disaster, but still, it would make the low brass sound a little more old school (as long as they don't start writing glissandi all over the place) as well as making the transition between drum corps and band more effective for a big portion of the marching members. Not that I think that is an issue, but DCI seems to think so. I know that this would be a slap in the face of the legacy fans, but, what's one more slap, right? What do you nuts think?

96 Madison 00 Madison (I don't know why, but I always loved this one) The first six notes of 00 Cavies (I'm not sure six notes get any better than that in terms of impact)

I mean if you were to be really serious about finding something like this out, you would need many people to play the same horns to make sure you aren't subconsciously biased in how you approach the horn as well as evaluating a number of distances as you say that you have. Back pressure while playing the horn, assuming you aren't changing mouthpieces, should be due to the bore of the horn, right? I know the older horns had larger bores than normal Bb horns, but I'm not sure what the difference in specs is when compared to the current marching Bbs. It might also be due to the cylindrical, conical aspect of the bore. A trumpet is a cylindrical instrument, while a soprano bugle may have been slightly more conical. Meaning that the bore would expand as the pipe gets further from the mouthpiece. That would certainly reduce back pressure. The amount of metal involved in extra valve mechanisms might have a deadening effect as well, reducing the resonance of the horn. These are all just guesses, of course. That being said, I would imagine expanding the bore and making the horn slightly more conical, as well as choosing a correct backbore and aperture size on the mouthpiece, could recreate the sound of the G horns on Bb/F horns. However it would seem logical that just as there is nothing magical about the key of G in making the horns louder or giving them that old school sound, there is nothing magical about the key of G that made these horns not as reliable in regards to intonation. These characteristics which would lead to the positives of a G horn would also lead to the negatives. This is all just conjecture, mind you, but I feel pretty confident that I could make an educated guess. This might still be a good idea though, as it would give us that old sound while making used horns easier for the corps to sell. I think it would be a mistake to forget that that is a big part of fundraising for the corps now. I know that for Blooo, reselling the used horns at the end of the year is (sadly) their biggest fundraiser. That has more to do with Ohio's smoking ban killing the bingo profits, but I digress.