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Seems like something that could have happened. I know we did visual rehearsal late into the night (2am or so) a couple times at Pioneer when we were in hot climates or in a crunch to learn new drill. We always had to be real quiet though, so we wouldn't disturb any of the neighbors around the housing site.

Yup... Pioneer was the only corps to go down in score tonight from their last show. Mandarins took two days off and gained 4+ points. Once again, I just don't get it. At some point in time, it has to get disheartening for the kids. And I just want to clarify that my comments really aren't intended in a derogatory manner towards the corps that are jumping up in scores. That's what supposed to happen in mid July. Just a little frustrated that we're not seeing that same progression of scores with Pioneer... Especially considering the fact that I know the show is getting better... Oh well... Still Better Every Day!

I know that the corps is getting better. Numbers like tonight's can just be frustrating sometimes because you know that they seriously can't be worse after a full week of rehearsal. Oh well, nothing really all that surprising about it. They've got a good stretch ahead of them and Texas has traditionally been a good place for Pioneer.

Go Pioneer! Other corps take a week off to practice and gain 7+ points. Pioneer takes a week off to rehearse at Pioneerland and loses 1.2... Better Every Day!

Kind of surprised that there were only four corps at this show. Such a big stadium and such a small show...

Hmm... What's the above in reference to? Perhaps I missed something...

I completely agree that they can catch Madison. I've seen 5 point gaps disappear almost overnight. But in my opinion, the probability of them passing Madison is fairly low. If anything, it makes rehearsal more interesting when you at least have a corps within 'striking distance' to shoot for.

It's not a matter of desperation. It's a matter of clarifying what we have available. You'd be surprised at the number of people who truly believe that it's too late to join a corps... or that all corps are full. I screen all of the inquiries that come in from the Pioneer website and several times a week we'll receive messages/emails asking if we have spots open, what sections are full, or if it's too late to join. So rather than being passive about it and waiting for those emails to come in, we're being proactive about it and posting what we do have open.

I just wanted to re-emphasize that a lot people are missing the opportunity of a lifetime by not taking a look at Pioneer for this summer. I marched Pioneer for 8 years. And while nothing says that you have to do the same, there's no better place to get your start in drum corps. Our final camp of the season is rapidly approaching... So I encourage you to give it one last thought! While that couch in your living room might look pretty inviting right now, there's a much better seat for you to spend you summer in... A seat on a Pioneer coach touring the country! Give our corps office a call ASAP if you realize that you do want to march this season. It's not too late!

Doesn't completely shock me if it's true. I said in a post earlier in the year that it's so easy for these giant construction projects to fall behind that I thought the possibility of DCI getting moved was very real. For them to run a week or two past the scheduled completion date is completely understandable. There may be certain things that they can't assure will be 100% ready enough to meet local fire codes/building codes to allow 20,000+ people into the stadium. Imagine that they don't pull the plug on it now, and construction goes right up to the last minute and they aren't able to get their occupancy permit in place because of things that aren't quite done enough. Fire inspectors have a lovely way of making that happen! The potential consequences could be devastating for DCI. That said, I'll wait to see the official announcement from DCI to make my judgement.

Just to touch on the church issue a bit since it seems to creep up here from time to time. The page that was cited above essentially describes the corps philosophy on going to church, so anyone who takes a few minutes to browse the corps website will see that we go to church. Is it broadcast on the front page of our website or a part of the membership contract? No, but in all of my years with the corps I can't ever recall going to church being a major issue with a member or potential member of the corps. We usually would attend whatever church was close enough to the housing site and was large enough to hold the entire corps. Sometimes it was a Catholic church, other times a Lutheran, Baptist, or non-denominational. Heck, for years we went to a church that we called the "funky" church because they played rock/contemporary music. We became such regulars at that church that we even played there on a couple Sunday mornings. If we end up at a church that doesn't exactly match up with a members faith, they don't have to actively participate in the service. Nobody's forcing anyone to convert to Christianity or from one denomination to another. Not to mention, often times going to church in the morning allows the cook staff a little extra time to fix a nice meal for after church!

The SOPY program is by all means the most successful fundraising program that Pioneer has for its members. It does require some work on the part of the members, but I know of several people who have raised a good portion of their dues utilizing the SOPY forms. For more information on the SOPY program, please visit our website (www.pioneer-corps.org) and click on "Sponsor a Member" on the main menu. Also, be sure to check out our Forum as there is a whole thread there dedicated to great ideas on how to maximize the effectiveness of the SOPY forms.

Rumors aside, even the expected completion date is cutting it extremely close... for us... even for the Colts football team. One minor setback could throw off the entire schedule. Living here in Milwaukee, one can only think of the tragic crane collapse which left 3 worker dead and delayed the opening of Miller Park for a whole year. I would pray that nothing of that magnitude happens in Indianapolis, but even the slightest accident, supply shortage, or construction flaw could result in a delay in the opening of the stadium. One would hope that they have DCI circled on the calendar and can have at least one side of the stadium "finished" from end zone to end zone by championships. Thinking back to Miller Park opening, they were still doing last minute painting and touch ups right up to the time that the gates opened and even beyond. And while the roof may be somewhat of a concern, as we've found at Miller Park... if it doesn't work, just leave it open!

On the surface the thread may not appear to apply to drum corps. However, read a little into it and it really does apply. To me, it's an eye opener to see how much kids are having to pay in fees to participate in an extra curricular activity in some school districts. If there really are tons of kids/parents/boosters having to fork over $1000.00+ for each student to participate in the marching band season, does that at all hinder the recruiting efforts of drum corps today? I mean, if I went to my parents back in the day and asked them to spend that much on an extra curricular activity as well as that much on drum corps, they would have looked at me like I was crazy and something would have had to give. As it was, I had to skip a high school wind ensemble trip because I couldn't scrape together the funds to do both Pioneer and the band trip in one season.... So yes, the responses in this thread are helpful to the OP and I guess an eye opener to some of us who aren't directly affiliated with/in touch with the marching band/BOA side of things.

You do raise a good point. But we practiced the heck out of it back in my day (93-00) to make sure that it was up to par. Can't say what they do now days, but I know that they do have a new arrangement coming out that should hopefully clean up some of the exposed parts. But, when done correctly, Gary Owen can bring the house down. If Donny remembers, we had a couple mean lead sops back in 1999 & 2000 really ended things on a good note. There was one show in 2000 (I think it was Centerville, but I could be wrong) where we were outside of the stadium and circled up and the crowd was still on their feet clapping.... almost like they wanted an encore. But on the flip side, I've heard a couple passes in recent years that made me cringe.... So I definitely recognize where you're coming from. However, I will say that we were often times told not to troop in my day based off of the stadium (ex. exits from the field) and we always followed the directions as told. In my opinion, it doesn't take any longer to march past playing Gary Owen than it does to march past to a cadence. But I guess it's all a matter of opinion and tradition.

I don't think the OP is completely off the mark. You really can't compare today's activity to what it was 15 or 20 years ago as the concept of the "local corps" is virtually gone. However, I can support the part about "it's all about me". Having recruited for Pioneer in the past, and now having run the website for the past 7 years, you'd be suprised at some of the stuff that we hear. There are a lot of kids now days who, for whatever reason, desire only to march with a top 15 corps. When those plans don't work out, they occasionally look to corps like Pioneer. However, in communicating with some of these kids, they act like coming to march Pioneer is actually doing us a big favor. It's just a completely different attitude than even what was found 10 years ago. Yes, there were plenty of kids back then that used Pioneer as a stepping stone to Madison, for example. However, they were usually grateful that we gave them the opportunity to march and that they were able to gain valuable experience. There are still some kids where that philosophy applies. However, I always love getting emails in January from individuals who got cut from another corps wondering if we have any lead sop openings or if bass 1 or bass 2 is open because that's all they're willing to play. Once we email them back with what we do have available, we often times don't hear from them ever again. And the sad thing is that some of these kids are local kids who live within an hour or two of Milwaukee. But, if they can't march with one of the top corps, or they can't at least hold a "prestigious" position within our corps, they don't want to march.

While it's always sad to see a corps go inactive, you have to respect the fact that they did it at this point in time. It gives everyone involved plenty of opportunities to explore their options for the 2008 season. Hope to see them back on the field in 2009.

Just as a follow up to this whole incident... Access to the server was apparently gained through a unsecured script on a different website on the server, not Pioneer's. The script had been used at a client's request, and has since been removed. In any event, they hacked into several websites that I run and defaced all of them. Nothing too serious, though. It took a little longer to get the site back up and running because the hackers erased the raw access logs and I didn't want to put the site back up without knowing exactly where they were coming from. Also, I was out of town for the weekend and didn't have all of my back up files with me. However, (crossing fingers) things should be Ok from here on out. And a little on the hackers... Both appear on the Attackers Top 10 on Zone-H, a website that tracks "digital warfare". One has defaced over 30,000 websites and the other over 20,000 websites. So, they might be some kids, but they're some experienced young kids! Like was said previously, most of these hackers are not doing the hacking to be destructive. They do it as a hobby (or as they see it, a courtesy) to show website owners where their security weaknesses are. They'll keep hacking away until you close the loophole that they're exploiting to get in. On the lighter side... I appreciate the person who emailed me Saturday afternoon after hearing the music playing on the website and stated that they were glad that Pioneer had chosen different music for the 2008 season... I don't know who they were, or if they were being serious or sarcastic, but either way it made me laugh.

I think that you'd end up with the exact opposite... People would then leave early. I mean, there's not a lot to see now days after the show is over. And not to say that people don't want to watch Pioneer or any of the other lower corps, but I think there'd be a serious number of people who would leave out early with a couple corps left to perform. Heck, start driving an hour or so before the show's over... by the time you get home the score's will be online!

I think that you can make a comparison involving drum corps and just about any sport. The point is that in all of those other sports, they've found a way to make the "minor leagues" a success. Sticking to the whole NASCAR feel, the Busch series also benefits from the fact they race the day/night before the Nextel Cup race most of the time. DCI has tried to follow this pattern by scheduling II/III finals on Saturday morning. However, that makes for one heck of a long day of drum corps. Would the following ever work? Tuesday-Division II/III Prelims Wednesday-Division I Quarterfinals Thursday AM-Division II/III Semifinals Thursday PM-Division I Semifinals Friday-Division II/III Finals Saturday-Division I Finals Attendance might be lower for some of the events earlier in the week, but I think that attendance at II/III finals would be higher. I mean, if we're going to be in Indy for most of the next 10 or 11 years, people are going to run out of "touristy" type stuff to do on Friday... What better to do than go to a drum corps show? Besides, there's always something special about performing under the lights for a finals competition. I always had a hard time getting real hyped up and focused for an early step off time.

The truck series on the other hand has created its own identity by racing a truck instead of the typical "stock car". Yes, there are occasional Nextel Cup drivers that enter the truck races, but no where near as many as in the Busch Series. There are fans, however, who come simply because they like trucks. However, attendance is much lower than the Busch series and ticket prices are even cheaper. Yet, by all means it is generally a successful series.

It hasn't always been so popular. Attendance, popularity and success for the Busch series has come at a significant price. The easiest explanation of why it is so popular now days is almost half the field on any given weekend in the Busch series is made up of Nextel Cup drivers. For example, for the Busch race coming up this weekend at Dover, there are 17 Nextel Cup drivers entered. It's essentially the equivalent of 17 Division I corps showing up at Division II/III prelims. In any event, many people watch & attend Busch races for the opportunity to see these Nextel Cup drivers at somewhat of a discount rate. Not to mention, at many of the tracks you can get a much better seat than you could for a Nextel Cup event. And of course it's a benefit to the Nextel Cup teams/drivers because they get extra practice/notes to work off of for the Nextel Cup race the next day. (Not to mention another paycheck!) The down side to the situation should sound strangely familiar... Many of the smaller, under funded teams that previously competed in the Busch series have been forced out of the sport by the surge of Nextel Cup teams/drivers competing in the Busch series. They simply can't afford to compete with the giants of the sport such as Penske, Hendricks, RCR, etc... You can't attract quality sponsors when you're consistently running 25th on back. Eventually, the money runs out and the team folds... The promoters don't care about the small teams... Their concern is making sure that there's a handful of Nextel Cup drivers in the field so they can sell tickets. And oh yeah, that there's enough small teams there to make a full starting field of 43 cars. Unfortunately, there have been several Busch races this year where they fell short of the 43 car field because too many small teams have folded up or can't afford to come to the track every weekend. So all may look good on the surface, but I think that there are a lot of underlying problems with the Busch series that will surface in the coming years. But for the meantime, it's successful because of Division I/Nextel Cup... Not because of anything that it's doing on its own.

I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that Dann has been involved with the Madison organization pretty much every year for the past 7 or 8 years in some capacity. I recall seeing him almost every year when I went to shows. In any event, Dann was a great leader and motivator back in 98 when he was a visual tech at Pioneer. Those of us who knew him then could tell that he was headed in the right direction... towards something special. Well, he's reached that point and he's the right man for the job. Congrats to him!

Pioneer Drum & Bugle Corps & Color Guard Cudahy High School 4950 S. Lake Drive Cudahy, Wisconsin 53110 Camp Begins: November 16th @ 8:00pm Camp Ends: November 18th @ 4:00pm Visit our website: www.pioneer-corps.org

We did it every year down in Orlando. It was somewhat of a challenge. I can't recall which year it was (I think it was 98), but one year the security around the stadium wouldn't let the Pioneer busses go down the road where we were supposed to unload. After circling the stadium for a while trying to find place to unload, we finally created our own unloading zone on the road that ran behind the stadium with only a couple minutes to step off (Not gate time... step off!). Unfortunately, then we ended up encountering some cops who decided to stop us and wouldn't let us off the bus. Half the corps was already off the bus, but the cops were standing in front of the door and wouldn't let anyone else off. Eventually we got off the bus... that's all I'm going to say... and did our show. But yikes, what a way to head into a championship performance! Hopefully they have things better coordinated around the Rose Bowl. Also, I recall a some problems with brass players bumping tuning slides while carrying their horns on the bus. Made for an interesting on field warm up! It just sucks that the corps aren't warming up near the stadium. I always liked to watch the corps in the stadium on Thursday, in the lot most of Friday night, and then back in the stadium on Saturday.