elmhurstmusiced

Is the title staying the same?

Careful out there making opinions. If your profile says you marched a G7 corps like I did, and you disagree with the G7 like I do, there are a few members that are going to post your profile to try and make you look bad. I guess people have always agree with the corps they marched. I guess all you Cadets out there that have disagreed with George over the years are doing something wrong.

No.

Scouts also have Chad Duggan back on staff in a major role with the visual, so that will help BIG time. For those that don't know, he was guard caption head from 1994-1998, and responsible for much of the design of the shows overall in that time.

That's funny, the topic right after this is about over-moderation. Hmmm

Well, based on the filings for your own circuit, it seems your time with us has come to an end G7. Thanks for offering some entertainment and Holier-than-thou ideas. I'm sure glad that those of you leading your new endeavor feel that what you did in corps and what you learned means virtually nothing. I'm glad you did your research on organizations that minimize, and their success. If not, here are a few samplings of how it has worked. 1. Professional sports-NBA, NFL, MLB have all expanded and added groups, which has hurt them so badly. You're right to limit who can be there. 2. Governments that only want a certain "type"-It sure worked out in the 1920's-1940's in Europe. I mean, Germany, Italy, they worked out well by saying that only certain groups could be in their club. You all must have read Mein Kampf-great read, good ideas, glad you learned from it. I'm sad I took different lessons. I look forward to hearing how $50-100 tickets in a high school stadium work out with only 7 groups playing. I can't afford that, so I'm going to keep going to shows that don't cost that much with groups that are providing an education to people. Well, that's all. Just wanted to say goodbye! Take care. As Motel 6 says though, "We'll leave the light on for you"

Well, to the G7, bye! Thanks for occasionally offering entertainment. I'm glad you're not taking the corps that care about the fans with you. Let us know when you want to come back. I hope the $50 tickets in a high school stadium work out well for you, but well, they won't IMHO. See you in 2015!

Here is my thought on it. If the Music in Motion corps break off on their own, several things will happen. 1. If they try to sustain a tour with only 7 corps they will fail. 2. I believe it might actually make it possible to have DCI grow and prosper and help smaller corps to grow and develop. My reasons. For number 1-Do some research on a little marching organization called MACBDA. It's an organization that was formed in the 1970's by midwest band directors. I realize that it is band, but check it out. In the 1990's the organization was down to a dozen or so groups. This past year they had 5 groups, with a few others performing once in a while. Over the past 4 years, they have gone from 7 to 5 competing groups (as part of their regular tour before). The number of contests have been cut in half, and the 5 groups that still compete are a shell of what they used to be in performance and size. For number 2-It's simple-More opportunity for other groups. I have no problem going to a show if the "headliner" corps were someone that place 8-12 this last year at finals, or even lower than that. Why? Simple, a 12th place corps in 2012 is, IMHO better than many corps that were top 6 even 10-15 years ago. So let Madison be your draw, or Spirit, or Glassmen, it'll be fine. Have organizations like the NBA, NFL, or MLB survived by trying to stay small, no. There have been expansions over the past 50 years, and they are looking for more. Let them go if they want. See how many tickets they can sell and how many shows they can do, and how many kids try out when they have a tour of 10-15 shows that cost $50-100 to attend. I won't be there. I'll be watching the shows where there are more groups, and more shows, and more corps. Not to be a jerk, but in the 1930's there was a political party that only wanted "their kind" at the party, and well...

After reading this thread, this is what I feel is the intent, correct me if I am wrong: 1. We hate the Blue Devils because they're good and other corps just can't keep up with their originality so it must not be exciting which means its not good considering thousands of fans still love(d) them 2. The Cavaliers aren't exciting now that their music actually isn't a bunch of whole notes with quarter note melodies like in 2000-2002 and since they haven't won in a while, they're not exciting anymore 3. George Hopkins is the devil 4. All these changes are ruining DCI even though changes are the reason drum corps turned into DCI in 1972 but because I only like a certain time period now sucks 5. Excitement is gone in DCI even though the Madison Scouts had the sort of reaction at the end of 2012 that they did in the 90's(oh, and I marched in the 90's so I can say that based on REAL experience, not an observation. Happy Thanksgiving. Keep complaining.

It seems time to add a new tab to the forums. Keep the World Class, Open Class, Reviews, Historical, but I think it's time to add one. Maybe 20 years late, but shouldn't there be a "I Hate Drum Corps" area. I mean, the end was near when they went to 2 and 3 valve bugles. Star was the anti-Christ, with George Hopkins their step-son. Bb's were the end. Electronics. Bigger corps. I mean, why not have a place that all the people that hate DCI can just go and sound off about how this activity is changed. Shoot, there's probably enough people since the inception of this type of activity back 70-80 years. I think theres more than enough topics, and certainly enough "fans" to keep it functional. Mod's, be we close this, just consider it. I think you have several thousand followers that would really feel better.

So what do we want? We moan about DCI and how the top 3 corps define and nothing else is looked at with regard. We complain and moan when the "top corps" try going at it on their own. What the heck do we want? Hey people, you want your favorite corps to be influential, then have them design and perform shows that make people turn their heads. I was forced to challenge myself musically and visually with BD in 2012, yet Boston, a top 12 corps made me wish I was 14 again and watching Star. Must be DCI and the G7's fault. I mean, yeah, it's their fault that the Glassmen can't put together a program that stimulates a larger audience and the judges visually and musically, even though they have people like Key Poulan and Sal Salas involved. Stop whining and complaining and do something about it. You have options. Join a staff, start a corps, design a show, stop going to shows where the G7 is performing, whatever. Whining on this rag isn't really helping your case though.

Wow, well played. This must be accurate.

Then don't cry poor.

Good point. But if you're struggling financially, maybe pick a rep that you can afford. Especially if we're begging for assistance. Any little bit helps in my opinion, and this is a no-brainer to me.

What are corps doing to cut costs in areas they don't need them. A corps can still be competitive if they marched 128 like 10 years ago. It would be less staff, 1 less bus. Why not drop 10-15 from the staff in some cases. Does SCV really need 15 people on their percussion staff. Granted they're not crying poor, but do they? I doubt it. Find 5-8 that can make the schedule work that are kick ### teachers, I am sure they would be fine. Maybe find music that doesn't cost a fortune in royalties. Most SINGLE songs from Hal Leonard cost over $600, maybe find a new piece. For example, I wrote a marching band show this year using Sweeney Todd. The band used 5 songs. They paid $3,000 in royalties. Is that something that HAS to be done? I know there are ways a corps can cut costs and still have a great show filled with great memories for the kids, just have to be smart about it.

What's he being paid? Is it the same as 2012, is it more/less? This could be an area they could save some money. Less experienced designer, less money. Make them earn it. Or maybe the guy from the other Glassmen thread can tell me that the designers need to make a living. Which, of course they do, but writing for a drum corps shouldn't buy you a penthouse IMHO.

Here's a thought... Why so many people on the staff's of some of these corps. Now granted not all make the same money, some do it for free, I'm sure they all have different levels of pay, but let's take a look. Spirit-I counted over 40 on the 2012 staff Madison-59 if you count all designers, staff, and consultants Blue Devils-43 if I counted correctly SCV-I believe 49. Some of these corps have 10-15 people just working percussion. You mean to tell me that there are that many people needed to teach these kids to march, play, spin or do whatever they do. I mean, I know they can't all be on tour at the same time, but it wasn't that long ago when most corps had a staff of half. and the crazy part is that there are only 22 more eligible spots in corps now compared to 10-15 years ago. I don't get it. I also think part of the problem is the jump to 150 members. It leaves less kids for other corps which means less corps, less dues in many corps. It also means more buses. The 128 model was designed to get all members on 3 buses. Now we have 4-6 buses, 2-3 semi-trucks. Maybe go back and rethink the sizes of corps and staff's. Just a thought.

Here's a thought, how is Pioneer making it work. They're not always at the top of the food chain competitively, but they field a corps and make something happen. But again, it's obviously DCI's fault.

I realize that there are a lot of factors that go in to this, but I also feel like there are often excuses and fingers pointed. Housing costs, fuel costs, staff costs, I guarantee every corps could make cuts.

DCI's fault? I guess it must always be.

I sure do hope that they can pull this off. I have ALWAYS loved the Glassmen. I wonder often though, if it would help many of these corps if they could maybe get some of their staff/designers to write and teach at a lower fee. I know when I was marching with a little corps form Dane County, Wisconsin, that our corps director, who is now running a corps with people in Kilts, had a staff full of alums that basically worked for the love of the corps and activity. This might save some money. I also wonder when I see corps using copyrighted music all the time, the fees are outrageous. Many corps-like Madison in 2012, and the Glassmen themselves back in 1995 have used public domain music and that might also help. I know that there are many facets to these problems, I guess I am wondering out loud how often these types of things are taken into consideration. I mean, I am sure the Glassmen could find some very quality designers and staffers that would work for next to nothing or even free. Couple that with hot shot planning, and I think they could reduce their operating budget to well below the $850,000 mark. When I first started teaching I had a budget of $3,000 and had to run an entire HS music program. Might not sound difficult, but my kids had the same type of experience as groups that had $200,000 operating budgets. Just some thoughts.

I am a big fan of Aungst, and I LOVE Marc Sylvester, but if I am going to think of ways for Crown to take it to the next level, I am not sure they would give them much more than they already have. Blue Stars had the staff they did this last year-some AMAZING designers, and didn't make finals. Blue Knights also had amazing designers, and were good, but couldn't make a jump. Now I realize they may get a different pool of members than some of the supposed "top corps," but if that doesn't work, I think the issue may not just be who is writing drill for Crown and who is writing drums. Don't get me wrong, I love Crown, but having some big name doesn't guarantee a win. Just my thoughts. I think if Crown keeps on the path they are on, with the talent they get, and they develop a program, they WILL win in the near future. The way I look at it, in most years they would have won with their 2012 show, it just wasn't what the judges wanted to reward this year. This ####### talk about them needing to change everything because some caption might be weaker than others just makes no sense to me though.

I don't think Madisons' hornline gets enough love. With the exception of a few years, and even those weren't bad, they always have a good hornline.

Andy Ebert is not gone from Madison, he's just designing. As for Mryon to Madison, not a fan. Didn't work out in 2006. I LOVE Myron to death, but I think he needs to be with the corps on a regular basis and go through a growing period for groups to learn how to march the drill the way he wants. I think that's why it worked with SCV for so many years, because he was there working with them on an intimate basis.

Ok.