BRASSO

It just seems like common sense too. A solo that is undeliverable to the judges ears as intended by design, is well.... messed up and in performance must logically be considered sub par. Judges since the beginning of time in Drum Corps, have been instructed to judge " what is "... not.... " what was supposed to be. " If judges are suddenly now giving forgiveness for completely botched solos, even for sympathetic reasons beyond the control of the performer soloist, then we really are headed into unfamiliar terrain where build up points can be given equally to well delivered featured solos and completely botched featured solos by Corps . In the case of the Corps that had the completely botched solo at Finals ( due to Mic'ed system being completely wacked ), their Music side GE scores had no effect at all, and their Music Analysis score actually went up at Finals from the Semi's where the featured solo was delivered well by the performer and as designed. Their overall score on Finals Night was actually not adversely impacted at all by the featured solo... actually 2 solos ... being completely and utterly botched on Finals Night in performance however.

I clearly mentioned that the '89 Corps self reported, and that the '75 Corps did not above.. I also stated above that all youth sports, including the NCAA, do not care if a School's team self reported the use of illegal participants in their competitions. They don't care if the player(s) duped the school either. The unknowing basis by the school would be deemed irrelevant, despite perhaps acknowledged sympathy for their plight by most on lookers. Nevertheless, such teams would undeniably have been DQ'ed from participation in any further competitions that season anyway, once the revelation of the illegal participation that season became known. Thus, the self reporting would not have been deemed relevant at all into the DQ'ed sanctions imposed. But... why let any of this get in the way of your good story of your defense of DCI 's actions here ?..., that no other youth sports likely would have permitted. Not a chance in the world a team that utilized illegal players that season would be allowed to further compete in a tournament,.. even absent those overage, illegal players, no matter how the revelation came to light. You skipped over that observation I made above.... to apparently advance your defense of an unprecedented level of the set aside of the DCI rules for participant competition by DCI in '89 for a Corps. This decision was at odds with the complete DQ of an entire Corps in '75 by DCI's HQ for the similar violation for the Corps apparent known use of an overage marcher that season. One Corps self reported the violation ( '89 ). The Other Corps ( '75 ) had the reporting to DCI come from a rival Corps at Prelims that was fighting for a Finals spot, and held back that info from DCI apparently until Prelims. DCI HQ was not made aware of the suspicion of the use of overage marcher(s ) by one of their Corps until it was brought to their attention by a Corps that was unclear if they had a Finals spot totally locked down or not coming into DCI Championships in Philly in '75. So this additional layer of info adds perhaps a counterpoint to your defense here of DCI HQ's decision that the later '89 Corps they set aside the rules for were " duped by 2 of their marchers with forged documents", ( apparently true ) and thus the reason for the set aside of the rules and established penalties by DCI HQ for utilizing illegal participants in DCI's competitions all season long by any of its membership Corps.

Those Final Four games were all thrilling. Congrats to the Virginia Cavs for prevailing.

I suppose its possible.. who knows. Yes, it was a unique and terrific performance from them anyway.

If so, what are we supposed to infer or connect to GH regarding this depiction in their show ? ( or maybe we shouldn't go there ? ) I thought of several potentially connective things when I saw the Onyx 2019 show, but George Hopkins never entered my mind at any point as possibly one of them. Oh well.

That could make for a good show theme for a Corps some day... no wait...umm.. uh...uh...never mind..

Well, if we want to compare similarities, a brass solo that is completely botched as designed to be played in competition performance, apparently suffers FAR more loss of potential build up points on today's judging sheets than a singing solo that is completely botched as designed to be sung. Singing solos tend to be much longer in duration than brass solos in performance too. The singing solo was not the performer's fault. DCI judges apparently decided to award build up points on " how it was supposed to be performed ", not on " how it was performed, delivered, and received ". Thats a rather novel and new judging criteria, we must admit. When has a brass solo, unmic'd, that was completely botched in deliverance to the ears of audience and judges alike, received build up points on " how it was supposed to be performed " rather than " how it was performed and delivered. " As for the delay penalty the Bluecoats Guard received this weekend at WGI Championships, DCI Corps have had delays in starting ... even at Championships... and not penalized. Just sayin.'

" The schools " are not the paragon of good virtue with these decisions either, lets face it " The schools " themselves have their own public image problems nationally at the moment. Most of these predators were hired and long safe harbored in the Educational Field. Sent from system to system as the apparent result of subpar and ineffective reporting mechanisms, or just levels of forgiveness with our nation's kids that is just appalling. This unacceptable level of tolerance for high risk individuals around our Nation's kids is probably just as worse, if not far worse, than among the DCI Corps, imo. So I really don't see the School Boards here as much of a threat to the DCI Corps, as they apparently have their hands full already with these bad characters ALREADY in their classrooms throughout the school year, and on their school grounds that they are confronted with. So Summer traveling Drum Corps that use their school grounds for maybe only 24-48 hours in the summer with the schools closed are likely far down their priority list when it comes to providing safety for the students that are on their school grounds.

He was positively amazing. SCV will have a very good one for themselves this summer, if true.

How school boards respond to things is beyond our control. One hopes the school boards act rationally, but history tells us, some do, but some don't. More to the point however, unless I'm missing something here I've not witnessed a lot of schools around the country acting irrationally and declaring their schools and facilities off limits to all DCI Corps, except in a few in numbers isolated cases so far. First off, the national schools like the monies their typically empty school practice fields, gyms, dorms in the summer generate from rents. Secondly, unless there is a public outcry in their communities not to house Corps, they have hundreds of other things on their plate to deal with. I suppose if schools begin to prevent DCI Corps en masse from their facilities then of course we have a problem.. But lets not go looking to find a solution to a problem that may not currently exist, Stu. Lots of these schools have WGI units, or they secure funds for their School's MB's by sponsoring shows, or they get clinics for their students, or their students participate in DCI, or their MB staff do. Unless I see a public outcry in these communities to their school board's, I would not worry about " presumption of innocence ", as from my current assessment of things in this regard, this seems to be already present with 95- 98% of the schools already re. the DCI Corps . These DCI Corps are in the process of locking down their tour, housing and practice facilities for the 2019 season Stu.... and I'm not hearing of many Corps having problems with their housing and practice facilities accommodations, nor losing many show sponsors, due to the behaviors of a few DCI Corps personnel, Stu.

There is some history that would point to the inconsistency of the application of penalties anyway. DCI HQ was confronted with 2 similar cases of reporting to them of Corps using overage marchers. In one case, when they were informed after semi Finals at Championships, they quickly DQ that Corps from Finals Night participation ( 1975 ). In the 2nd case, ( in 1989 ) they allowed that Corps to go out and compete at Finals ( minus the 2 overage nmarchers). DCI justified their actions with the statement that in the 1st case, a rival Corps brought the info to them, while in the 2nd case, the Corps using overage marchers self reported the DCI prohibition against using overage marchers. In both cases, there was clearly the establishment of the prohibited use of over age marchers. The only fundamental difference was the reporting of such to DCI. DCI could have elected to DQ the overage marcher, ( in '75 ) and allowed the Corps to similarly compete on finals Night, But instead, DCI decided to penalize the entire Corps and their marchers, and summarily dismissed their opportunity to compete ( nor even allowed to perform in exhibition ) on Finals Night for that Corps in '75. DCI HQ, with the reported knowledge that a Corps utilized 2 overage marchers all that season of "89 ( except on Finals Night ) took no action later to disqualify those competition results of that Corps that season prior to Finals Night, nor was there any effort by DCI HQ to make the Corps return any show monies for placements/ wins that season in which they marched overage marchers in competition, and collected those placement and win monies essentially illegally.. That Corps competed on Finals Night ( minus their overage marchers ), and won themselves a DCI Title that season of '89. There is a phrase in the legal field that says that " ignorance before the law is no excuse ". The claim that the Corps in '89 did not know it had competed illegally with overage marchers that season is perhaps accurate , But if this was most sports ( including the NCAA ) if a school... even unknowingly... utilized illegal players in competition, they would forfeit all their games played that season, pay steep financial and sanctions penalties, and if found at NCAA Tournament time, they'd absolutely be DQ'd from further tournament play, even if the school self reported the illegal participation of some of its players to the League once they found out about it themselves. But Yes, the 2nd corps with not one, but two, overage marchers in '89 had influential people ( a DCI Founder Member ) that DCI quickly acquiesced too and gave a different outcome than the entire Corps they DQ in 75 for the exact same violation, ie, the utilization throughout the DCI season of long established league rules prohibiting the utilization of overage marchers in competition.

I don't don't know about this. There is the requirement, imo, of the PRESUMPTION of innocence, especially in the court of law of the accused that has been arrested and charged with a Crime by legal prosecutors. But there is no requirement by the public for a "DECLARATION of innocence" after the accused has been arrested, charged, detained, and dates set for Trial., People are free to declare publicly what they think of the arrest and charge either way. Its a free country. As such, people are free to state publicly what they think about it, imo...People declared ( both ways ) here on DCP what they thought of the woman's public declaration of sexual assault by GH. GH, and his attorney's have likewise been given the opportunity to declare the charges true or false too with the public. And they opted to declare their innocence... and a few posters on on here stated that they believe him. Neither Party should be told they have no freedom to declare what they want to believe before the case is tried and/ or settled.. Nor should there be restrictions on the public to declare their thoughts on it either. But the presumption of innocence until proven guilty in a Court of Law still remains absolute in the US Jurisprudence System. This fundamental principal is not threatened by the public's comments. Juries are properly instructed pre trial. on the presumption of innocence principal too. Sometimes, Jurors will even declare post trial they thought the accused was guilty of the charges, but they returned a not guilty verdict because the prosecutors did not establish a breech of the presumption of innocence legal requirement that the Juror( s) were obligated to retain throughout the legal proceedings.. Perhaps you meant to use the phrase of a " presumption of innocence should always prevail " until proven or an admittance of guilt has taken place. . If so, I would agree with you if this is what you meant to say instead here.

Well, without naming Corps names here, but some of us here recall not that long ago when a Finalist's Corps Mic system was so screwed up on Finals Night, it made the singer soloists delivery of their solo come thru to judges and audience alike as if it was delivered through a snorkeling tube underwater in the Caribbean or some such. But were the judges forgiving of that completely botched solo on Finals Night ? Some would conclude, Yes... they were forgiving of it, imo. The Bluecoats sound system created the timing issue yesterday that resulted in their penalty. No negative repercussions seemingly took place when a similar sound system snafu completely botched a soloist's solo in performance later in the season at Championships a couple of years back however.

Corps/ DCI HQ spend money as they see fit. If DCI HQ's believes they need to explain in press releases what they intend to do to improve marcher safety among their Corps, in my view its money well spent, as a press release can't be all that costly to put together, imo. As for the individual Corps, they would be well advised as well, imo, to put out press releases on occasion to tell the public what steps they intend to do in the future in their own Corps to shore up future marcher safety as well. As voluntary, signed up, membership Corps in DCI, they are all impacted by events that implicate one or more of their colleague Corps. As a result, they would be well served to address what they intend to do, publically about this topic as well.. As for the costs for them to put out such a press release on a topic that tainted DCI Corps with a broad brush, the costs are miniscule compared to the costs they incur with lots of other things. Some of these things are likewise beyond their control, ie, show cancellations and its resultant loss of income due to bad weather, loss of bingo operation revenues, etc and dozen's of other events and circumstances foisted upon them and which they had little to nothing to do with. All this said, as mentioned, no press release words, nor investments in such, will help DCI's Brand unless improved marcher safety in the future becomes real, and not some mere Talking Points.

Speaking of the Bluecoats Guard, it was unfortunate to see they had a Sound malfunction last nite. It caused them a delay in their start to their show after being alerted to start. It caused them a 1.4 point penalty, and 2 placement positions as a result of that 1.4 pt penalty. Thats most unfortunate and regrettable when it happens to the performers as its something that is completely beyond their control.

If DCI really does improve marcher safety in the coming months and years, they won't need any PR, nor website to engage in PR re.their" improvements", nor Press Release " statements on improvements ".The improvement itself is what is needed, and the rest ( PR, Websites, DCI Press Releases, etc ) will take care of itself. If DCI only gives lip service however to improved marcher safety, then no amount of positive spin, nor positive press releases, nor website improvements, etc will save them from an embarrassing repeat of the last 12 months in one form or another again, imo.

Pride of Cincinnati's win margin of victory last nite ( 2.1 points ) was the 2nd largest in WGI Independent World Class Div. in the last 20 years too.

Yes, agreed... Pride of Cincinnati was spectacular in performance on Finals Night. Popped a 98. Congratulations to them on the Title in the World Class Independent Division. I really enjoyed their show as well.

The evidence for the support of the premise of the increased importance of Guard/ Visual on the DCI current judging sheets can also be borne out with how many Corps the last decade that won the Ott Award ( Best Brass ) and/ or the Sanford Award ( Best Percussion ) won DCI that season. when they were awarded Best in DCI in these 2 Corps sections.. ( not many ). SCV, for example, won the Sanford for several years the last decade. But It was not until Michael Gaines came onto their staff to enhance the Visual side however that put SCV back into the medals round, then ultimately the Winners Circle last season. Carolina Crown has won several Ott Awards for Best Brass in DCI, but only 1 DCI Title. (the Year they won DCI, they finished 6th in Percussion ). Winning the Zingali Award for " Best Guard " in of itself will not catapult a Corps into the Winners Circle. But the data does seem to show that one can win a DCI Title finishing 5th or 6th in a non Guard section Caption, but impossible to win a DCI Title if a Corps is similarly in 5th or 6th place in Guard on FInals Night. If one is going to have an achilles heel in a Corps section. its far better if its Brass and/ or Percussion... but not Guard. This seems not only true in the Top 6 DCI Corps, but right down throughout the lower echelon of DCI as well. As mentioned above, last season, the Mandarins figured out the sheets. They comfortably made their first Finals qualification ( easily in Finals.. at 10th ) despite not finishing in the Top 12 in either Brass Performance, nor Percussion Performance in the Prelims. This could not have happened ( imo) if their Guard/ Visual did not finish in the Top 12, but their Percussion/ Brass did.

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Its unreal the overall growth of Winter Guard International too. To the point there are now more participant performers doing WGI, than doing DCI. The comparatively lower costs for participation likely an important factor, I would imagine ( thats what people tell me anyway, and would seem to make sense as well for such growth of numbers participating ).

Also,BITD, it was a bit uncommon to see a soloist in the show from the Guard section. Corps had a few of them, but mostly the soloists were from a musical instrument section, most typically the Brass section, not the Guard. Fast forward to today, and in the age of Themes, it is very likely that the Guard will be most prominent in advancing that Theme to the audience, and most especially to the Judges.. It is not unusual now at all to see a soloist that advances that theme to come from the Guard section now. Sometimes as a featured Dancer. Sometimes as a Singer soloist. We still have brass soloists, and even on some brief ocasions, a soloist in the show from the Drumline. But the emergence of the Guard for prominent solos now is unmistakable. Some soloists in the show from the Guard section now are featured as soloists not briefly, but throughout half to as much as almost the entire show too... front and center. Brass, nor Percussion soloists, arn't hardly ever, if at all, featured for half or 3/4ths of shows. The reason for this.. clearly, imo.. is that Corps believe they have the potential now to generate more build up points on today's sheets ( especially GE Visual ) featuring these performers from this section of the Corps now.... more so than ever before too, imo,.. The emergence of the prominence of the " Visual ", ie the Guard sections on the scoring sheets, mirror and track that of the emergence of wholesale stated Show Themes in Drum Corps shows in the late 80's's... and has accelerated into even more prominence today and since then, imo.

Thanks... but I quickly decided not to open a can of worms., so deleted it.... lol

nm....

I'd agree with this assessment as well. Some of it can be attributed to the influences of Winter Guard International, where several of the DCI Show Programmers, Guard, Visual instructors... and even judges... have either gotten their start in the Performing Arts there, or work there currently now. The accelerated influences of WGI upon DCI, particularly the last 10-15 years, is quite visible and unmistakable.... all the way down to the props and even attire being worn in many cases. For DCI history buffs here, note that " Guard " for decades in DCI did not have their separate caption, not their own judge on the DCI judging sheets. But the influence of WGI folks within DCI were able to prevail upon the others and both propose, then secure a separate caption, and with that, its own Judge soon followed. Since then, the acceleration of the Guard/ Visual upon both the Show Designs as well as the sheets and the scoring began to increasingly manifest itself, imo. I predict that these 10-15 year noticeable trends will continue and accelerate over the next few years as well. Things DO change as we frequently hear, and DCI Corps Show Designs are naturally shaped by the training and experiences of its people.