wishbonecav

The Grand Prix lineup is one of the best of the year. Just looking at the dance card, the fans will get variety, entertainment and value. The Championship lineup is sensational on its own merit (Bucs, Hurcs, Cabs, Empire, Bush, Fusion) and the local alumni corps (Bridgemen, Park City, Sky, Cabs) will not only entertain, but will put even more fannies in seats. Now, the Raiders and Jersey Surf had a choice for the weekend: (A) drive 4 hours to do a DCI show in Springfield, MA with a sub-par lineup (please hold your letters) at a small high school stadium, or (B) sleep in their own beds, do some laundry, drive 9 miles to the show (Raiders) and give mom and dad a chance to see a local performance in front of a packed house. The choice looks pretty simple. The Grand Prix makes for a great experience and might be one of the highlights of the year for the local junior kids. In fact, the crowd at Clifton will likely be larger (and more appreciative) than the crowd at DCI D2/3 Prelims or Finals. Here's the question: if it's July 12th (middle of the contest season), there are other corps in your division present and you have a panel of adjudicators on site prepared to offer an opinion, isn't that a formula for a "contest" rather than an "exhibition"? IMO, the Grand Prix Junior Championship would be a title worth competing for and celebrating. Let's give 'em a number! (PS I don't want to hear about big, bad DCI and "sanctioned" this or "approved" that. If DCI gave 'em a better alternative, they'd have gone there)

Does Crown have Friday rehearsal in Orlando?

And the Marauders' "Dragon slays the Knight" was fun cheese.

If Cheese-cake counts as cheese, may I offer the Sex Cymbals (VK) and the "Pop out of the Uncle Sam Hat" hot girl in VK '88?

Me and Garrett are having a cathartic exercise from our high school days!!! Are we cleansed?

I, for one, was probably a real pain in the a** for my high school band director. Marching corps creates high expectations. And immaturity means pushing your expectations onto others. On top of that, the "animals" are different: Corps is a competitive experience where marching band is often a participation experience. It's like trying to put a round peg in a square hole.

Three additions: 1. Cadets 95 (the Rievers, a street parade segment and the original Cadets Iwo Jima...sensational) 2. Bluecoats 95 (the Homefront was patriotic from gun to gun) 3. Retitle the thread "...in Junior Drum Corps" Any list of patriotic moments that doesn't include (1)an Uncle Sam on stilts, (2)an Armed Forces Medley including guard uniform changes, (3) a moving tank blowing smoke out the nozzle, (4) When Johnny Comes Marching Home with a field-size American Flag flying over the corps (5) the Statue of Liberty to a company front (see Empire Statesmen 87,88, 89, 93, 96) is a Patriotic list that is missing a key player. Patriotic was a Statesmen staple. This is where all the standing-oh's came from!!!

Given the travel demands, the kids need a break, too. Perform and "out of uniform" to chowline is not unacceptable given that the buses need to leave. But an encore by the winner is a nice bonus. After tabulation, strap it up. Or an exhibition corps that can carry the freight (like St. Joe's did in Buffalo last year or Royalaires in Chicago in 2004)...that can be cool, too. When St. Joe's performed after SCV and their average age was announced as 58, the stands started buzzing. When they were done, the crowd was throwing babies. It was the biggest, most sincere and sustained ovation on the night.

Might want to ask April Gilligan about the Suburbanettes. And the Ventures were ridiculous every year from 86-90. Owego Mello-dears weren't too shabby, either. One of their alums marched next to this poster in Empire '94. (Hi, Sue)

Whoops. Rochester 2007...warmups could be heard over the performances, esp if you were seated in the second tier. Drums, from anywhere, are still drums. The sound bounces off the buildings and makes its way into the night air. Here's the thing: warmup is part of the hype and is truly a member-important experience. For it to have any validity, the warm up has to translate to the field. Warm up too close, you disturb the presentation. Warm up too far away, you lose the "warm" on the way to the field. Drums on pads defeats the purpose. A uniquely drum corps connundrum where no good answer exists (unless the show is inside and the warmup is outside). Whoops, again. "Inside" usually sucks.

Marie Cz is still part of our community. On her judging polo it says "DCI". Let's give the woman the break she deserves as a longstanding member of our community. She travels to shows, prepares herself professionally, provides adjudication and then goes to a meeting to justify ranking and rating with both her judging compatriots and those whom she has evaluated. At the end of the day, she deserves more respect than she is getting here. I think calling her out by name SUCKS. If the number is justified through critical evaluation, so be it. If the number doesn't "add up" she deserves the opportunity to rectify it. If she made a "tough call"...GOOD FOR HER for having a little courage to call it like she saw it. That's what she's paid to do!!! It is JUNE, for heaven's sake. It might have been her first sampling (or second). Performance levels are inconsistent in JUNE and scoring might just reflect that inconsistency. A tear on a Friday might have been fixed by Saturday only to find a tear in another part of the performance. Try calling her on the phone. See, when you ask her your questions, if she's the professional you'd hope she'd be (she is). Then think to yourself "shame on you" for the innuendo, accusation and embarrasment you have directed at her.

DCI is a performance organization made up of independent competitive organizations. DCI is promoter. DCI is an organizer. DCI isn't a ruling arm with a commissioner that can implement ideas. The independent organizations haven't ceded DCI (or the director) with that power. Therefore, given their autonomy, the independent organizations will act according to their own best interests FIRST and FOREMOST. DCI is not a "league of equals" that recognizes that the "league" is better off with the Troopers than without them (beyond lip service). (The NFL realizes that they are better off with the Green Bay Packers, that's why they are given as equal a footing as the Dallas Cowboys; voting, committee, revenue from licensing, etc.); Not-for-profit organizations still generate revenue, pay employees, pay for services and offer benefits against a budget, and they maintain cash reserves. They are not benevolence associations that give away extra revenues (profit) to some charity. Not-for-profit is a tax designation, not a moral code. It is the means by which drum corps can keep more of the revenue they generate. Period. Just because a group is not-for-profit doesn't mean they aren't willing to step on their competitor's neck if it creates an advantage.

SAY IT! SAY IT!

Ooooh. Pandora's box..... If I am a would be director, and have horns, drums, flags and uniforms and I have a bus-rental contract for the summer in-hand and a staff of able volunteers (including, let's say Key Poulan, Dennis DeLucia and Marc Sylvester) ...and I go to the "pool" and say "hey, I'll just take 135 warm bodies", after all "it's for the kids!" how much support am I going to get from the DCI directors for that idea?

Wyoming and Milwaukee ain't California, so there's built in difficulty there. Mandarins are typically 3rd choice in California (first choice, perhaps, if you are Asian-American, but that's a little different). Crossmen don't have the YEA affiliation to fill ranks (but that only guaranteed them 2nd class status in YEA anyway) And the "is it worth it?" discussion is actually valid here. A kid that didn't make the Cadets, Devils, SCV, 'Coats, Cavies, Crown or Regiment might say "NO, it isn't worth doing tour with a mid-tier group because it guarantees when they announce the medalists, I won't be one of them." D2 (limited tour) used to be a reasonable alternative because it wasn't as heavy a time commitment, still gave 'em a chance to participate and (maybe most mportant to a 16 year old) a chance for competitive success. ANd maybe even time left over for that summer job that mom and dad were nagging him/her to get. That's a good looking cocktail for a teenager who needs a little more drum corps/musical seasoning. Without D2, the only place that offers all of that is DCA. And the Bucs, Statesmen, Crusaders, Brigadiers, Cabs, Bushwackers and Hurcs are all championship outfits. Those corps are all 100+ with a younger and younger average age. Maybe the East Coast student who misses out on the Cadets finds more value in Finalist DCA than they do in non-Finalist DCI. Thoughts?

Gregg, You have the benefit of seeing things clearly and using deductive reasoning to form the right conclusion.

So apparently the requirement is to buy 3 of those 54 person busses. If you can tell me how that fits into a tight budget, I'll buy the argument.

Yes, yes, yes. Manning was a mess, but it was Mecca. May I also offer: Ivor Wynne Stadium in Hamilton, ONT (for DCI Canada;) Harding Stadium, Marion, OH for US Open (liked it for the same reasons many hated it) Barnum Festival @ Bridgeport, CT (because it was always full.) So that's 3 dumps and a stadium with a 55 yard line.

"It's for the kids" is usually a suspect argument that masks a different agenda, but it's an argument that is difficult to deflect in a debate. If you come out on the "other side" of the "it's for the kids" argument, you can be painted into a political corner. So the big dogs hide behind ambiguity, claim the moral high ground, and garner a competitive advantage. It's actually smart politicking. Here's the tough part: the new model calls for a 4th bus (128 fit on 3 busses; 150 takes a 4th bus), making it that much more difficult for the fledgling corps to keep up. When DCI becomes a 10-12 SuperCorps, big venue traveling circus (remember the post-DCI showcase from a few years ago? that was the prelude) DCI will have graduated to product-entertainment as opposed to participation-competition. Kinda like NASCAR. That's not a contest so much as it is an entertainment showcase.

Back when I marched........ We were actually a registered Boy Scout Troop, even though we were co-ed. I'll always remember hearing the scores in 1984 at the American International Open (Butler). We took 4th, but behind a corps most of us had never seen...the Ventures. One of our snare drummers said "We got beat by a bunch of girls?" Yep. And that "bunch of girls" handed us our ### for the next 5 years.

My kinda topic. When the regional circuits held "all-comers" shows, all corps were judged on the same sheet. Achievement is achievement. Drums here, bugles there, visual here...voila! Here's the score. DCM gave the member corps voting rights for this kind of scenario and is the best example with Minnesota being scored alongside Colts, Sky Ryders, Pioneer, Scouts and Regiment. And, OH NO!, once in a while, Minnesota would come out ahead of one or two of the Juniors! Guess what? The Earth didn't stop rotating on its axis! Now, no more DCM, no more voting rights. So, he who has the gold makes the rule. It is like Darth Vader and Lando Calrissian. Lando: "You said they would stay here with me!" Vader: "I am altering the deal, pray I don't alter it further." You want "relative" scores? Put everyone on the same sheet. That's not so hard. You want an audience that understands the difference between Junior and All-Age sheets? EDUCATE THEM! They were "smart enough" to buy a ticket to the show. Let's give 'em a little credit instead of infantilizing them. By the time they get to their cars, they won't care anyway!!! Do we really believe the conversation at tomorrow's dinner table will be that "Renegades beat Santa Clara"? Or will it be more like "Timmy has soccer at 5:30 and I have a hair appointment at 7"? Not announcing the score is an insult all the way around. To the audience, too. And a hand-wringing "thank you for coming and entertaining our fans, now run along" goes...to the Renegades! Nice job, DCI. Who's the bonehead who came up with this (insert Vader's Theme here)?

Can DCP pull this thread? To call someone's playing into question, then calling them out by name...how can that be considered productive conversation? "Faking it" implies either a lack of ability or cheating. And now we debate the merits of a player who could probably put the OP in his back pocket and have room for some loose change. Either way, it isn't good form to single out a drum corps brother this way. Besides, good training might dictate that, if you have a choice between fuzzing the beats or not, hanging out just might be the right choice. Bottom line: this thread sucks.

Chronicling the DCM and DCE circuits and their relationship with DCI "when it all came down" might yield some interesting (or unpleasant) anecdotes. But you probably wouldn't get those anecdotes uninhibited from Tony or Roman because of they way they conduct themselves professionally (yes, that is a compliment to both). There are sources to describe this push-pull, but you might have to have a credential to get the info from them and guarantee anonymity. Let's just say that one circuit's show development was another's hurdle to hegemony. DCE was a juggernaut with corps at 4 levels of competition. So was DCM (wait, they had 5, or if you count Cadet Corps, 6, senior makes 7). Cadet Corps was "development" in spades...Phantom Regiment Cadets, Madison Jr. Scouts, Colt Cadets, Blue Star Cadets, etc. In the East, but further back in time, there were the Patriot Cadets (Patriots) and Greece Shoreliner Cadets (Cadets of Greece) to name a few. We used to have CCI, for heavens sake (look it up!). Before the circuits "closed up shop", this was the structure. (It's starting again, Eric. Make it stop!)

Marauders OTL in 87 was ridiculous (Johnny One Note? ladders? white spandex? I was 17 and wanted pack a bag and move to Kelso after seeing that) The dragon and the knight? And the dragon wins! Dracula...what a cool corps. Miss 'em.

Ta-dah! Nice post. Because this is "what it is". Citations, 20th Maine, Suburbanettes, Satellites, Joanettes, Explorers, Granite State Garrison, Diplomats, North Star, Valley Airs, Defenders, Alliance, Boston, 27th, and Spartans used to make for a nice Saturday show in Lowell or Lynn or that funky baseball stadium (where was that? began with a P). How about Open, A, A-60 and All-Girl all in the same show? Did I leave anybody out?