Photographer Jim

just a quick question. Could somebody give me a quick vocab lesson. I know I fit the DCP definition of "dino". But what are y'all referring to when you use the term legacy fan? Has a participating background in DC? Fan before DCI? Has written a contra player into his will? I'm just not familiar as to how that term is correctly used around here. Thank you.

OK, I guess I'll take a minute and weigh in with a few comments about this topic. I'll preface my remarks with a few facts about me that may add some context for where I am coming from. First, I am what is lovingly referred to on DCP as a "dino". I attended my first DC event in 1957, and have been a fan ever since. Secondly, I am not a musician in any sense of the word (hence my screen name), and have never (alas) marched or participated actively in drum corps. Just a long time fan. As I listen to discussions of A&E in drum corps I continually sense a tendency to extremes. It is either inherently evil and will result in the death of the activity, or it is seen as a savior which is necessary for the activity to continue to exist successfully. I personally see it as neither. Rather, I see A&E as a musical element whose place (or not) in drum corps is still in great flux. It has potential to both improve and diminish the art form. Which, will depend on how the artists learn to to harness the potential and grow their understanding and skills. Allow me to draw an analogy from the area of art I am most comfortable with, graphic art and photography. Over the past decade, digital technology and computer processing have had a major influence on the direction of photography as an art form. The inclusion of this technology has not been without passionate debate. Digital capture, and especially digital post processing ("photoshopping") has been heralded as a destructive force which will "water-down" and diminish photography as an art form, or it is seen as a creative break-through which will result a creative revolution for the better. Early on, the former was somewhat true in that a great deal of not so good images appeared. Images were over-sharpened, over-saturated as the technological tools were highly over-used. Recently the same has been happening with HDR images; greater dynamic range but an overly "crunchy" look. However, as time has gone on and artists have become more familiar with the technological tools, things have started to swing back toward "traditional" elements, with the emphasis on composition, light, and imagination. Some very powerful images are being produced that could not have been produced with the limitations of traditional darkroom tools, but which still are true to traditional artistic elements of "good" graphic art. I see A&E as being along the same vein. Its use, at the moment is (IMHO) for it to be "over-used" in ways that sometimes emphasize the technology over design, music and imagination. Ultimately, I think (hope?) things will balance out and the end product will be powerful shows that could only exist in the presence of modern technological elements but which are still true to the traditional drum corps art form. I believe that that balance is not only possible, but probable, that this will happen as the artists work through the use and place of A&E in their creative vision, and develop the skill sets needed to A&E in effective and pleasing ways. Ultimately as fans, I think it is imperative that we not allow ourselves to get too invested in black vs. white arguments over whether A&E should or should not exist in drum corps; an exercise in futility. Amps and electronics are here and with no indication that they will go away. Instead, we might do better to focus on discussions of how and to what extent these elements can be used to produce an artistic result we can enjoy and value, with the hope that those discussions will help guide the artists (and each other) to appreciate the use of these tools. Granted, that will be difficult in that our own personal preferences for either more or less will not easily change. People on either of the extremes may be lost along the way, but such is normally the case with any type of evolution. One last remark. I agree whole-heartedly with the comment made by CrunchyTenor earlier. The really important factor influencing the growth of this activity we so dearly love, is tied more closely to the changes in our society brought about by the information boom on the internet than it is tied to any controversial issues involving electronics, show design, what type of brass is being used, etc. In the long run, what and how we communicate what drum corps has to offer to those unfamiliar with it will be the real determinant of its strength as an activity. Respectfully, Photographer Jim

Personally, I have no problem with a tie for the championship in drum corps, however, IF it were determined that a system for breaking ties was needed there are probably a few possibilities that might make some sense. For example, break the tie by head-to-head comparison in the caption categories; beat the tying corps in two of the three major captions you get the championship. If a tie still exists, compare sub-caption scores. Still a tie, have a predetermined prioritized order of sub captions and go down the list until you get a winner. Etc. The idea would be to have a system that breaks the tie on the basis of the actual championship performances themselves. Again, I personally see no need to break ties, but the thread did bring these "what if" thoughts to mind.

No, I don't think lowly of you at all.

Well, other than the fact that at the beginning of 2012 the corps would have different personnel, a different show, months of layoff from practicing a show they will no longer be performing in the future, probable different venue, etc. etc. ... Such that the result of this tie- breaker event would be totally and completely meaningless ............... Sure, stellar idea.

I didn't get them the championship, but this change in the closer at finals was certainly a great moment if nothing else. I speak of SCV in the early 80's (1982?) slipping in a reprise of their well- known "Bottle Dance" to the complete surprise and delight of the Montreal finals crowd. Not enough to overtake BD that year, but a memorable moment for sure.

Nice bump for Academy

Did you check that you set your amp to the correct input setting? For example, my Mac out is plugged into the amps auxiliary input, so I have to remember to take my amp setting from TV and set it on Aux. Hope that helps. Edited for typo

You realize, of course, that NONE of these statistics are meaningful until we know the standard deviation?

Shouldn't it be "ALL Y'ALL", which I believe is the plural form of Y'all?

Quite possibly so! That brass is dang good!

I find this pre-show SOOOOOOOOO annoying. Alas.

I'm somewhat of a BD honk, but yes, that has been my biggest concern with this show all year. The ending lacks the punch they led me up to expecting.

I know that, just copied and pasted!

Houston scores: 80.9 blue stars 84.15 blue coats 84.3 scv 85.15 phantom 88.6 crown 89.3 cadets 89.4 blue devis 89.8 cavaliers

Scores out of Odessa show Pioneer 67.25, Mandarins 72.8, Pacific Crest 74.15, Teal Sound 74.45, Crossmen 77, Academy 77.45, Troopers 79.05, Glassmen 79.4, Blue Knights 82.25, Madison Scouts 82.8, Boston Crusaders 83.3 From Troopers Twitter

Google maps says 341.2 miles; and 5 hours 28 minutes. Doesn't sound like fun!

Given that The Academy has only been in World Class for four complete seasons so far, this seems like a bit of excessive criticism. I think you might also find there are corps who tour more extensively who have not been making it into finals regularly either.

I have a question: Can anyone shed some light on the specifics of differences between the "old" sheets and the new TOC sheets being used tonight? And are the differences significant enough to make comparisons with other shows and current scores and rankings meaningless/ difficult/ non-consequential? In other words, how does the difference in sheets effect our ability to make sense out of the results of TOC shows? (OK, that was three question.)

I'll second that.

I'll take one. Oh, and could I have fries with that?

Don't worry Yogi, I think people recognize that you were asking a legit question. Just be aware that here on DCP a certain number of responses are apt to be throw-away one liners or "inside" jokes, or clever answers not necessarily meant to disrespect your question. A good example was Euphman89's word fill-in form. You've only been on DCP for a week now so you might not recognize that his response was pretty spot on for around here. Read threads for awhile and you'll see that it probably has been in use for some time now. So anyway, relax, enjoy the threads and try not too take things too seriously around here. Lots of good pithy viewpoints worth listening to and refecting on; lots of outrageous ranting to give you a good chuckle now and again.

I think this is true. Well done. well, except for the part about the criticisms of the Cadets. After all, .............. they deserved most of it. (Bada-Boom)

I spent 34 years in the classroom. Yes, it probably is your best bet! (Seriously, good luck. Its a career that has many rewards beyond the monetary ones.)