Madbass4

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There will always be people doing that. You should see how many people in the world disagree with films like "Titanic" and "Crash" being the best picture winners at the Oscars over films like "L.A. Confidential" or "Brokeback Mountain". The sad truth is that there are corps' performances that are not as good as others, and fans will not agree with judgments. There will also be performances of groups that even the most intelligent of people will know could be the best, but judges won't say so. I've met judges who run their mouths (when they shouldn't) about how they purposely take advantage of their positions to dock groups for reasons other than their performances - you know it exists, and so do I. Regardless of the trend for people (who know better or don't) to cry "UNFAIR" over calls, I'm willing to admit that sometimes there's an exception. Knowing full well that Vanguard cannot win the Sanford this summer due to their placements, it will just be another historically controversial subject to join others (1993 Cadets beating Star, or the 2007 BD Drumline winning the Sanford over Coats, PR, and Cadets, etc, etc, etc). There will be people crying "Shenanigans!", and there will be people crying "Judges Don't Lie!" I'm not one to say it's impossible for foul play, because there's always room for it. It's life.

That seems to be it for the most part. And to BozzlyB, of course there are a lot of people in/formerly in the activity who don't agree that SCV is better than the rest. But the FACT is that OPINIONS exist. Okay, that sounds a little lame, but I tried.

Why the aggression? It's not like SCV's percussion is the Madison Scouts of the early 2000s ("THEY'RE GETTING SCREWED, THEY'RE SO MUCH BETTER THAN THE REST, BLA BLA BLA!!!). You'd be surprised how many educators and long-standing DCI drumline veterans that are in/formerly in the activity agree with him. He made a valid post and he wants some feedback. Why not we give it to him?

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I&E has lost popularity with a lot of performers from Midwestern corps, it's the truth. Considering the amount of corps in the activity that prohibit their members from participating, it's no wonder that ever since 2005, I&E participation has PRACTICALLY been limited to most of the West Coast groups, and a few others. I'm particularly glad to see that Madison has never been one of the groups weaning themselves off of it, and it was good to see some Bluecoats participate as well. Personally, I would like to see a rule proposed that every corps must produce at least a certain amount of participants for I&E (although it does sound a little tyrannical, I suppose).

Not to most drummers. Usually our ears are more open to what's coming from the percussion section, and we can easily be distracted from a show's greatness by their drumline, in good and bad terms. Star '93 had a killer drumline. Blue Devils '10.....well....it won't be remembered like Star '93. So, to most drummers - you would probably have to communicate it as "I wouldn't be surprised if BD '10's SHOW DESIGN turns out to be this generation's Star '93." lol

I'm very impressed. Perhaps this can be added to the Cavaliers' alumni database, if not already?

And to that, I mean that the control used in the doorknob technique (for doublestops) pretty much spanks the bassheads into submission, where the pulsating of the heads wouldn't matter.

I was first taught to play with the wrist-turn (doorknob) technique, and later played in groups that used the wrist-break technique (doorknock). I would say that both approaches produces it's own sound. If I had to describe a difference, I would say that there is more control utilized (muscle work) in the wrist-turn method, whereas the doorknock method utilizes a lot of rebound from the bass drum head, which surprisingly (to some) projects a lot of sound to the Box (even from a pianissimo dynamic). I wouldn't try doing bass drum double-stops with the wrist-break method, though. Two bassheads pulsating against each other won't do you any good, which is why you see a lot of basslines that employ double-stops using the doorknob technique.

Hey - I voted for 2005 Cadets, but I would also have to say I favor the 2002 Cavaliers show over that one - it was a better show (since a lot of us seem to be jumping on which show we thought was "better"). Vote still goes to the Cadets - they had better execution.

Cadets 2005. There are few years (at least that I can recall) where a drum corps won the championship because of their drumline. I think a good example is 2008 Phantom Regiment. If it wasn't for their high drum score (as well as the 5th place drum score of the Blue Devils), the Blue Devils would have indeed won the 2008 Championship. If the 2002 Cavaliers and 2005 Cadets went head-to-head, I'd use logic in the choice. Both hornlines were fantastic, the colorguards were both brilliant, the drill in both were well-executed (although the uniqueness of the Cavalier's drill would put them ahead in that aspect), and the music ensemble performances were all stellar with both corps. In percussion - the 2005 Cadets played a clean show. The 2002 Cavaliers, as much as you love 'em, and as good and talented as they were - they flubbed their drum breaks, and the dirt and bad attacks (no offense to them intended) are so audibly heard on the CD recordings, as well as videos, that the drum score and placement might very well be the determining factor. Then again - this is a thread based on something purely fantasy, right?

BAHHHH!!!!!! You got me there...(as I cry to myself and wimper, lol) lmao!!!

Does it sound good? lmao And the first beefy tap roll of the 2005 show ("Rhapsody") did not have a check pattern!

Oh, and one more thing. As nerdy as it sounds, I had my own pre-show hype in 2004 PR. I would listen to the previous year's show (2003 Harmonic Journey) before shows. Since that drumline was another big reason I changed corps, I used their beats and the corps' fantastic sound to motivate me. :p

First, I love this topic. Second, I remember when I marched Madison 2003, we would have guys mosh to "Killing In The Name Of" by Rage Against the Machine for pre-show hype. Hilarious and memorable! Third, I switched corps in 2004, marching for Paul Rennick. I went to Regiment because of Paul Rennick. Yes, he was my teacher at UNT, which probably influenced my decision even more (HE DID NOT INFLUENCE ME TO SWITCH. THE DRIVE TO WANT TO DRUM FOR HIM DID. IT WAS MY DECISION, BASED ON WHAT I WANTED). I thought he was the best. Fourth, the guys and gals of the 2010 Phantom Drumline won High Percussion in one of the best programs and experiences they could have ever had. The feeling of succeeding in a Rennick ensemble, and winning it (even with a sixth place corps) is a statement that cannot be competed with. It's a feeling that only they know, and we can be assured it could equate to "Being On Top Of The World". Why would they settle for anything different? A new drum staff that might change the way they perform, or change their approach, or not see them the same way? Fifth, I'm loving the Dan Sailer hype, haha. And finally, it's my firm belief (you all don't have to agree) that a great drum & bugle corps is made up of talented performers that all contribute to their respective captions. All the captions come together to produce that desired result, which is a great drum & bugle corps. I don't know if having a loyalty to the drum & bugle corps itself (including other captions you are not a part of) is the best way to achieve the best product. You might not find very many drummers following the Brass Caption Head to another drum corps, or the Visual Caption Head (but hey, if they do, why not?) Truly great performers know how to achieve the desired result, and these former Phantom Regiment members/current Vanguard members are obviously continuing their success. Why settle for less? Well, I'm sure this ventures into the topic of "Marching drum corps for philosophies/Marching drum corps for competition and scores.

That's right, I had observed that when I read the scores. I would love to see some of that Oakland footage, if any exists. They sound like quite the legendary drumline!

Oh, and lets also not forget that in 1977, the Blue Devils high percussion win might have been different if the Oakland Crusaders had made finals (their Drumline got FIRST in SemiFinals, and that was it for their season).

Yes, it is correct that the Cadets (of Bergen County) won drums in Finals in 1994, although I wouldn't say they won all three nights of Prelims (I could be wrong). Personally, I would prefer the Devs over them because their snare line was amazing (tenor line and bass line was stronger with CBC, in my opinion). 1994 and 1995 were just hands down two of the best years in DCI history for drumlines. Other lines in 1994 that were just fantastic: Crossmen, Blue Knights, Velvet Knights, and The Cavaliers. These times make me wish I was born 1973 instead of 1983. Could have aged out in 1995 instead of 2005. :(

I haven't read ahead to see if you've been corrected, but the "Buick" section of Phantom Regiment is definitely not the Tubas - it's the Euphonium section (an all Euphonium - no Baritone section).

Well, I guess the answer to that question is yes. A drum corps vet is a drum corps vet, whether they have five years and continuing with the same corps, or a "rookie" at a corps with over four or five (or whatever) years at other corps. They are seasoned veterans of the activity and nothing changes that, right? (and by the way, I'm expecting GREAT things from Tom Aungst's Blue Stars in time to come....)

I love how posts seem to infer that the most experienced person for a drumline is a veteran of the drum corps that the drumline is a part of. Vanguard has veterans of Phantom Regiment who have been marching since 2007, as well as outstanding players from many other different corps (some that are also VETERANS of SCV - the few but proud). Yet people just infer that a drumline will fail because there aren't many corps veterans in the line, or that the caption head and staff is new (even if they have Sanford titles under the belts, with the same performers following them to win another). I guess we should expect SCV to be a starter-line, right? Pshhhh!!! lol 1) SCV 2) Blue Devils 3) Bluecoats Anymore than that, and I must be Nostradamus (which I'm not) ;)

I dont know if this is completely true, but i heard back in the day when paul was at VK that the drumline won drums at allentown over the powerhouse groups at the time?? if this is true, then thats definitely a testament to the fact that he is a phenomonal instructor and can make any group good, rookies or vets. can someone shed some light on this? I had heard from various different people that the 1995 Velvet Knights (one of my favorite DCI Percussion Sections ever!!!!!) placed around 2nd or 5th (one of the two) in Percussion on Semi-Finals night, but the corps did not make finals. If this is the case, it would not be surprising that they were beating a lot of the powerhouse corps in percussion at Allentown.