irishbugle

It's likely they do not have a home game that weekend.

DCA isn't releasing those recaps this year. I believe a poster in another thread said Prelims recaps are never released. Can anyone explain why this is? Just curious.

Not everyone got an extra weekend to clean. Reading and especially the Cabs and Hurcs were dealing with hurricane Irene. I doubt these corps got any rehearsal time in at all.

Anyone who has been following my posts all year knows I have been in support of the Caballeros program since June and think they should be scoring better. However, if there is one prediction I feel fairly certain about is that Sunday night the Cabs will find themselves in 5th again for the 4th year in a row. Now I'm not saying that's what I want to see but I think realistically that's where they are headed. The 4 corps above them all have one or two aspects of their 2011 program that are really clean. Cabs would need one caption of there's (more than one is always welcome) to be a really dominant force (I.E a first place drum line or hornline) for them to be up in the pack. Since the only two captions of there's that are really strong this year (brass and visual) are up against Bucs and MBI (who have the best Brass and Visual books this year) I think the best we will see from them is fourth if they really come out on fire. One thing I know for sure- the Cabs show will be one of the most energetic and entertaining shows of the night. Regardless of placement, you can always count on them for that!

:) [iPhone smiley face] There is some truth to that. IF DCI allows woodwinds there will undoubtedly be people here that start the "if DCA doesn't do this to it will die because it's not a step closer to marching band" campaign. And than there will be people like you and I who will be dubbed "anti-progressive" even though I push for and support "modernization" in every program I ever work with. I don't think we will see saxophones in DCA anytime soon though so it's a moot point.....for now.

In all fairness, there were plenty of people involved in the design of the new sheets including key staff members from other organizations. To say it is "their" caption is not entirely accurate.

The communication column hasn't been a factor the whole year so I'm thinking it wont play a major role this weekend either. I've noticed the points awarded in this caption always mirror the placements of the programs that night anyway (I.E- No corps has placed higher in this caption than their overall placement for the evening). If it comes down to 10ths between MBI and Bucs than it could play a part. As far as the changes to the rest of the sheet, I don't see it playing a significant role at all.

If Bucs were performing at this show, Irene would have been in 2nd place.

There was slotting going on I tell you!!! Slotting!! I demand those judges get re-evaluated next year.

MBI Bucs Empire- Rehearsed all weekend.. no way they are dirtier than the Hurcs right now. Hurcs Cabs - Their drumline will hold them back. If not for their lower than average scores in this caption- this could be a top 3 show. Alliance Renegades Corps Vets Kilties Thunder Fusion Carolina Gold Govies Windsor Regiment

I've been trying to make that point for the last few years! Still, I believe the general opinion is they play the same thing every year regardless of what kind of facts you, I, or others bring up. Last years show in particular I really enjoyed.

Ohh man!! I was just about to buy the ticket next to Jeff Reams seat and annoy him all night. Maybe next year.

Hopefully DCA can have that same success this year. It would be great to hear that finals is sold out! As far as DCI having an increase- that can be due to a great many things. The economy seems to be in slightly better shape (debatable) so they may have taken the pressure off of folks attempting to attend finals. In 2009 and 2010 I didn't attend a single DCI show. This year, I was at three. That decision was largely based on my ability to afford tickets and travel costs; it didn't really have anything to do with the new layers of instrumentation. I will say- the new format I saw at the TOC show, where the corps finishes, than arcs up to do a quick encore piece is a great idea!!! Each corps played new, fresh music heard today, and how they arranged those charts to fit their instrumentation made it FUN. Hearing the Cadets pit play "I gotta feeling" was very cool. I think that format needs to be in DCA in 2012!!! That was something that really engaged the audience and made the price of the ticket well worth it. And what helps me sell my point about only amplifying the pit even more is that it was more fun to listen to how the corps incorporated todays pop charts into their existing instrumentation without adding any sound effects or back beats, or beat boxes, or guitars.. just what they had. Anyone up for hearing Cabs line up after a show and play "The Lazy Song" by Bruno Mars??? (I chose Cabs as an example because they are known for not playing new music) I think that's worth the $20 ticket for the whole evening right there.

So we are in a DCA forum, regarding a thread about DCA, and discussing the possible induction of members into DCA, and you replied to a comment I made about DCA recruitment... With an example not from DCA. (which no one could have known since your response was regarding DCA) And when I called you on it, I'm putting words in your mouth? Am I losing my mind? Maybe Irene is getting to me. Either way, since neither you or I have any administrative power in DCA, our conversation seems kind of silly right?

Ok. So based on what I wrote and what you responded to, your saying a young adult chose to march only because a group had a guitar in the front ensemble. There was nothing else that influenced their decision and had it not been for a guitar they would not have marched. Than I stand corrected- that can actual influence someone's decision. I'm curious to which DCA corps has a guitar though?? Also. That's one person, maybe even a small group of people. Not the majority. Plus- if it takes a guitar to influence someone's potential membership in a Drum and Bugle corps, than I have to wonder about the integrity of that member and what they contributed to the corps in general. I will absolutely agree that there is a growing concern for the fans and a need to change. I said that above. But as far as drum corps loosing members because of the lack of guitars. Not buying it for a second. Sorry.

How am I failing to listen to reason? I'm just not buying into this whole "drum corps is dying, we need electronics, even though the average age of a DCA member is 19-21 but we need younger people" speech. You've said it before, and I agree with you- Electronics aren't bad if they are used, and rewarded properly. Couldn't agree more with that. IMO- Amplification good, sound effects BAD. That's where I draw the line for me. As far as the attendance and fans... I agree that there needs to be new, fresh, and innovative ideas to attract a younger audience. Kamarag made some really good points that I support. What I don't see is where adding a few guitar riffs or an amplified pit will make that much of a difference. I get the impression that the people that support electronics envision a swarm of patrons rocking a hosts ticket booths back and forth, desperately trying to get a ticket to see a show if DCA allows corps to amplify.. I know that is not really the case, but sometimes that is how it comes across. Adding this layer of electronics to a program still won't fix the core issue that is driving away attendance and support. Yes, it will add a fresh idea, but some corps need to totally overhaul their programs and rethink their show concepts if you really want to start drawing a crowd back.

Sure, and Brigs is coming back, Cadets 2 is coming out, Tampa Bay just came out, Alliance is getting stronger, Carolina Gold seems to be doing better. Fusion seems to be dominating these last few years and they came out when 2007?? Point is DCA is on the rise, not the opposite. Cru and MCL may have folded for other reasons other than recruitment. But even so, 2 corps folding vs 4 corps coming out in a 5 year period doesnt support DCA sloping downward.

2011 Brass Rankings based off their highest score this season. 1st) Reading {191} 8/20, Scranton, PA 2nd) Caballeros {188} 8/21, Secaucus, NJ 3rd) Empire {177}, 8/13, Cicero, NY 4th) Minnesota Brass {187}, 8/21 St. Peter, MN 5th) Hurricanes {187}, 8/31, Secaucus, NJ 6th) Alliance {177}, 8/21, Douglasville 7th) Fusion {171}, 8/20, Scranton, PA 8th) Corps Vets {169}, 8/21, Douglasville 9th) Kilties {162}, 8/21, St. Peter, MN 10th) Bush {159}, 8/21, Secaucus, NJ 11th) Carolina Gold {155} 8/13, Toms River, NJ 12th) Shenandoah Sound {153}, 8/21, Douglasville 13th) Tampa Bay Thunder {150}, Douglasville 14th) Windsor Regiment {148}, 8/21, Secaucus, NJ 15th) White Sabers {146}, 8/13, Cicero, NY 16th) High County Brass {144}, 8/21, St. Peter, MN 17th) Sunrisers {136}, 8/21, Secaucus, NJ 18th) Excelsior {132}, 8/13, Cicero, NY 19th) Cinc Tradition {126}, 8/6, Racine, WI Feel free to make corrections.

[quote name='camel lips' timestamp='1314226284' post='3074707'] If DCA wants to get the face of DCA younger they are going to have to do things like Amps,Guitars,Synthesizers and electronic instruments so they can give the kids the same experience they are getting in marching band and DCI. Im sure its coming to DCA much sooner than we realize if we stay on the DCA younger generation track. [/quote] I'm wondering.... how much younger do you want the face of DCA to get? As it stands now, the average age of most of the open class corps in the NE is 19. Why continue to push even younger? Why push at all? There is a great system in place now where DCA is working along side DCI to offer an alternative marching experience at a quarter of the cost. Young adults in the NE area get the option of marching Reading, Cabs, Fusion, Bush, Hurcs, Sunrisers, Windsor Regiment, Empire, Cadets, Surf, Raiders... even Bluecoats and Phantom have decent pull from the NE region. There is a steady path I am seeing of young adults already doing a year or two in DCA, than going to DCI after some experience, than coming back to DCA after they age-out. I'm sorry, but if DCA is going to add guitars and synthesizers, lets at least do it for the right reasons. Recruitment doesn't have to be one of them right now. We are seeing corps that have been inactive for a while restarting, new corps are emerging, open class corps are still coming out with full rosters... I'm not really seeing a recruitment issue JUST YET except for maybe some of the A class corps. But those issues are inherent with small or new programs to begin with. And as far as giving kids the same experience they have in marching band. [u][size="3"]THIS IS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE THE SAME EXPERIENCE THEY RECEIVE IN MARCHING BAND!! ITS NOT MARCHING BAND!! [/size][/u]I'm sure I don't have to explain the difference as we are all, to a degree, educated people here. But until we start having severe recruitment issues, I'm not buying the "lets add synths to attact younger members" deal. And what will adding electronics do for recruitment anyway?- add one more position on the field for someone to control a soundboard? A guitar spot? So if I am a baritone player, how is a guitar spot or a synth spot in the pit going to effect my decision????? Lets be real here! I think your adding layers to this that aren't really there. If I'm 17 years old and I'm deciding to march or not, its likely because: A) My band director, or staff might be there B) A friend marches there C) I'm looking to expand my musical experience D) Its a great addition to my resume E) I need new friends F) I have nothing else to do for the summer so why not G) I was born into the activity and I enjoy it H) Its a great way to experience drum corps but still work/school/be home during the season. I) Its 60% less than DCI. J) I'm not yet at a level where I can march DCI, DCA can get me there K) I can march next to players with YEARS of experience.. some may even be professional artists! I cant see deciding to march because "oooh... they have guitars, I must be apart of this". There are SOOOOOO many other factors that will not have anything to do with electronics.

Looks like the Irene wont be anywhere near PA until Sunday so it looks like the show should go off just fine.

Completely disagree. Before I respond I want to make it clear that I am not affiliated with any of the following organizations. Simply a fan. Also, I have no allegiance to a specific corps. I will go on record right now and say that I believe this year that certain aspects of the Caballeros show are far more difficult than the Hurricanes and Statemans shows. Its no secret that the Cabs drum line is hurting and their guard hasn't improved as much as the other guards since they first came out in 2nd place, but I believe Cabs play better and march better than both Hurcs and Empire. I can't for the life of me understand why it took until Sunday for Hawthornes hornline to be placed above Hurcs... it should have been done weeks ago. Also, their visual program has been getting very clean and based off of their Scranton performance on Saturday- they should not have been behind Hurcs in Visual Ensemble or Effect. They were cleaner visually, and have a much more demanding book. Call it a conspiracy if you wish- but sometimes I think this corps doesn't get the credit they deserve. Now, before anyone goes nuts. There is no question that Hurcs have a superior drum line and their guard this year is outstanding. Empire's show is good, and its clean, but its also not that challenging. I believe they will hit their ceiling this weekend and come Prelims, may not have any higher to go with their show. I don't disagree with the placements of these corps at all. I think Hurcs will move up a slot in the next two weeks and I think if the Cabs iron out a few minor blemishes in their show they can be looking at 3rd/4th if they want it bad enough. I will be accepting your angry PM's from 4PM until 10PM or if you prefer... the dislike button is located conveniently to your right.

Come on... you have to chuckle a little bit about the irony of a Hurricane disrupting the Hurricanes show. Lame at best, but still kind of funny.

Agreed. A corps stumbling over themselves because they have a hard book shouldn't receive credit because its hard. Likewise, a corps that only has 60 pages of drill with the largest step size at a 7 to 5 for 10 seconds and a level 3 brass book shouldn't get extra credit because its clean. There has to be a delicate balance. I can think of 2 corps specifically this year that are getting credit where credit isn't due for having an easy book in certain aspects. Agreed. However if the corps performing a level 5 book is almost as clean as a corps with a level 2 book, the corps with the level 5 book should get a higher score in the applicable categories simply because the performers have a higher demand. All things being equal, only if both corps had level 3 books, that would be the only true way to judge both corps fairly. Cleaner does not always equal better, and that is something I think the judges loose sight of every now and than.

Agreed. If someone said that to me like that, I would walk away too. And again, I'm not saying amplification is bad. I'm saying adding sound effects and unnecessary layers of noise electronically is bad. I don't subscribe to the method of recruiting by changing rules here, so the activity is easy for the influx of DCI age-outs. A little adaptability is good on all sides I'd say. And quite honestly, I can't image a recently aged-out trumpet player (as an example) would walk away from marching in a DCA corps because the show wont have sound effects. I think that's a bit of a stretch.

Agreed. I see a lot of equipment trucks today already packed to the max. This kind of equipment could be the breaking point. I really don't have an issue with front ensemble amplification as it will help bring out their sound and really doesn't require someone working a soundboard. The SECOND a SINGLE sound effect is pumped in, this activity is destroyed. Yep- I said it! Destroyed. IMO. You can red flag, dislike, PM all you want but thats how I feel. This activity is all about 120 performers on a field performing a story using instrumentation and methods not heard in main stream media, all while doing it on the move. I am not paying to hear a corps playing a phrase with an electronic back beat in the back round (similar to what I hear on pop radio stations.) I am all for the progression of the activity, but only as long as the essentials of the activity are preserved. And as far as the natural progression of performers using electronics coming out of DCI into DCA... Why should we even debate changing the rules in the circuit so we can accommodate what they are used to!!! Its OK to do things differently, and ask them to experience drum corps differently than what they are used to. Guess what- I am one of those performers who came out of DCI with amplification and even I don't want DCA to change that significantly. Amplification in the pit, sure.. Sound effects.. NO.