Pete Freedman

Myron Rosander

I would distinguish between glide-pathing and slotting. The definition of slotting varies, but it almost always implies a fix of some kind as to who wins. Often it refers to fixed groupings of corps in the placement order that corps cannot escape from. Sometimes the writer/speaker refers to an inherent grouping held over from the previous seasons, and sometimes it is seen as a bias that becomes fixed in the judges minds after the first few shows. Either way, according to "slotting theory" only the Bluecoats, Blue Devils and Carolina Crown can possibly win this year because the judges fundamentally bias them into a group. What also varies in the opinions about slotting is whether the judges are deliberately forcing the corps into these groups for some scandalous reason or are merely victims of bias (the more common view, I think). Personally, I think it's all bunk. The appearance of slotting is what happens when some corps are actually better than others and stay better throughout the season because, well, they are better. People expect randomness to appear evenly distributed, but it isn't Not that biases don't happen; I'm sure they do. But the evidence people use doesn't actually support it. Back to the topic at hand, glide-pathing. I think they use a Rank, Rate, Calibrate system, with the calibrate part not mentioned publicly. First: Decide who is better. Rank. Second: Decide by how much. Rate. Third: Adjust all the resulting scores together to fit roughly the expected curve. Calibrate. In order for this to happen the chief judge must be giving some kind of indication of the expected range of scores. Either that or each judge must be following the scores and must do that themselves. Or the judges in fact talk to each other constantly behind the scenes about the recent numbers (I would) and self-calibrate as they go. But I don't believe corps really get .5 better each day. More like .25 at best. Here's a thought experiment: Take several judges who have only been judging the past four years or fewer. Now show them HD videos of the Colts show from five years ago and Blue Devils from that same year. Let them judge them as well as they can from the video. Then tell them that the Colts show was from Semis, but BD's show was from early in the season just after they broke 80. So Colt's score was in fact higher than BD's. It's easy to trot out whatever gobbledy-gook you want to use to explain the false equivalence, but it would be a lot harder to fool judges who are blind to all that and just evaluating what they see in front of them. (For the record, I think BD would cream the Colts. How could a judge seriously score the Colt's demand as equivalent to BD's?) I don't really care though. They say you can't compare scores from different shows. Maybe now we know why - they've got their thumb on the scale, presumably to motivate the kids with how much their corps is improving day by day. I'm not opposed. If you can't be accurate at that scale, at least be motivating. After all, the system is designed to max out the student. That's their actual goal.

For each corps, maybe. So far this year at CorpsFans.com I can see that while Bluecoats have not backslid so far, BD has done so once, Crown once, Cavaliers twice, Santa Clara twice and the Cadets four times. This is from one show to the next, not necessarily on consecutive nights. Edit: CorpsFans.com not CorpsFans.org. Link added.

Yes. The July 5th episode said there would be one "next week". Hopefully no problem. If you're referring to the hiatus that began last Summer, all those episodes became available again recently in iTunes Podcasts app, but you have to search "Field Pass" as a different podcast (it has a similar graphic with a blurry background.) In other words there are two podcasts called Field Pass, one leading up to June 2015 and one for all episodes since. Except since July 5 this year, for some reason. He may be busy announcing shows.

Come to think of it, SoundSport groups are drum corps that don't compete in the DCI Summer Music Games, but I suppose "DCI" in the thread title could be taken to include any DCI-owned circuit.

The top 3 are .75 apart. The next 3 are 3.15 further back, all within about 1.4 of each other! 1 Blue Devils 84.700 2 Bluecoats 84.100 3 Carolina Crown 83.950 4 Santa Clara Vanguard 80.800 5 The Cadets 80.550 6 The Cavaliers 79.450 7 Phantom Regiment 76.850 8 Blue Knights 75.600 Congratulations BD!

Good responses so far. To the person who asked why I limited it to those three corps, it's because I don't think anybody has come within one point of any of those three so far (at the same show) - but I could be wrong about that. Cadets, Santa Clara and Cavaliers all seem to be in a second tier right now. Which leads to a second question: How many corps will come within two points of the winner tonight? That is, the winner plus how many others. Based on the inaccurate measure of different shows, I think that number is only two. But ... both Angels & Demons and Spartacus were further than 2 points behind only two weeks before Finals ...

Last night Bluecoats beat Crown 83.3 to 83.125. Previously Crown had seemed well down the order but it was clearly a statistical anomaly because all the corps they competed against also showed a similar wild skew. I believe BD, Bluecoats and Crown will finish within 1 point of each other tomorrow night in DeKalb. Anybody disagree?

From the C2 "About" webpage:

I had heard the age limit at C2 was 25. But either way they have to kick out a person after they turn 26, which begs the question: why? I get the body breaking down argument, but that's a matter for auditions, I would think. Certainly there are many 30-year olds who are very fit. I think with DCI you can stay in if you turn 22 on or after June 1.

Wow. That is amazing. It's true that the most recent instrumentation rules change means that a drum corps is simply a marching band without woodwinds. (Is a color guard required in DCI? Obviously effectively it is, but do the rules actually mandate it?) (Also, I think Ohio State - sorry ... The Ohio State - allows grads to bulk up the band to several hundred.) For a director I would think It would be hard to come up with a reason for not allowing 22+ people to stay in your drum corps unless some rule prevents it, either a league rule (which has it's own reasons) or the practical effect of high school membership.

From that homepage:

I don't know, their look transcended the particular shows they did. Maybe not to newcomers, but to fans anyway.

There's no doubt it was his. I think the poster was talking about a possible inspiration for it. I think one thing he did was to free drill from all previous constraints, so that all modern drill writers can do what they want, or at least what is workable. This is why they all owe him a debt of gratitude. (Pete Emmons gets some credit for that as well. Emmons pushed open the door, ... Zingali bowled right on through)

Good question. The 'Januals' are no longer annual, and I don't think there was one this year was there? So who decided this?

The site is a wonderful tribute.

Well, it's a great story but the author didn't actually show that the Z-pull came from that. First of all, snapping a belt isn't at all the same thing as a Z-pull. Secondly "the next camp" where drill would likely be learned in New Jersey would be months later I would think. However, it does suggest that Zingali was working on drills involving strings moving and snapping in various ways and who knows, maybe it was the first inkling of the idea. Anyway it's a great story.

The scores are always all over the place down there. However, at the moment Oregon Crusaders is showing a 6.2 for the last show on CorpsFans.com, but I'm guessing that's a typo as DCI has them at 63.450.

Hmmm. Leaked recaps. An unfair interference by fans that could disrupt the judging system, or ... A reasonable response by fans for whom the scores are (in part) intended? You decide.

Scores and variability are both typical so far. So far both scores and volatility are typical for this point in the season as far as I can see.

I agree with all of this. I predict (and hope) that the ToC and Regional winners won't all be the same corps at least. We'll see.

Yes, but then why are you in this thread? I suppose my phraseology: could be interpreted many ways, but what I meant was exactly what you said. You can't compare different shows. Yet here we are in this thread, doing exactly that. Crazy, right? I like how you conclude that BD is way ahead based on even less evidence, except their general awesomeness. By your standard they are way ahead before the season begins. Yet they fail to win the championship every 2-3 years. In fact they've never 3-peated, although they've 2-peated five times. So they tend to fall back the third year. I'm not betting the house on them.

Oops. Good call. 92 it was. At Preview of Champions 8/24/92 and 8/25/92 they came in 3rd in both Prelims (2.7 points behind) and Finals (2.1 points behind). Star and BD came first and second in both shows. They were of course competing against each other at the same show. The speculation invited by this thread is the comparison across different shows. This of course is statistically invalid, but fun nonetheless.

It's anybody's guess! IIRC Three shows since 2000 were won by a corps that was 2+ points behind even two weeks before finals. (Angels & Demons, Spartacus, and a Cavaliers show from the early 2000s - I forget which).

The Blue Devils are actually behind. Lemme 'splain. Last year at this point in the season BD was from 1-3 points ahead of both Crown and BC. But Crown was favored at Finals so Crown closed the gap. (Cadets was in between maybe one point or less behind the Devils on average, and Bloo was further behind.) This year BD are in a dead heat with both Crown and Bloo, so ... all-things-being-equal-which-they-are-not, including judging panels, difficulty vs. 'cleanability' of shows, staff, etc., etc. The Devs will lose to one of those two corps by 1 - 3 points! They should come in 3rd or lower. I don't really think this means much, but based on the limited and highly inaccurate cross-show data we have, BD is in trouble for a three-peat.