ZTWright

I have two issues here. 1. Cincinnati does not have a dome. Paul Brown isn't a dome. 2. My travel time to the nearest show for me, which isn't a short ride already, would be nearly tripled. Also, the cost of regular season tickets to a show at a local high school are already expensive, I don't want to have to pay $100 per ticket just so all competitions can be in a dome. If you have a problem with the show getting rained out and "losing" money, I find that to be a problem that you can't view it as a donation and move on with your day. Sure it sucks when a show is rained out and you can't see live shows, but things can't always go your way.

Just because you're in whatever placement you want to throw out there doesn't mean you're "in the thick of it". It's ordinals and spreads that we need to look at. 2022 - 5th place, .4 behind 4th, .7 behind 1st. 2019 - 4th place, .3 behind 3rd, .6 behind 1st. 2018 - 3rd place, .35 behind 2nd, .4 behind 1st. 2017 - 5th place, .1 behind 4th, .9 behind 1st. While less than a point seems like so little, it adds up to a lot at the top. I'm sorry people are refusing to see this and are so blinded by their love and fandom of Crown to be able to discuss what needs to be done in order to start climbing again. Yes, design needs to be fixed too, but in the order of things that need to be sorted out, percussion is number two so why can't we discuss this as well? I'm not saying let's go on a pink slip spree, but rather, yet again, placing more focus on percussion because the brass will be completely fine for a couple seasons to address the percussion issues so that they won't be considered a hindrance anymore. Crown could be the BD of the East Coast, just as Bluecoats are basically the BD of the Midwest (though geographically I wouldn't consider OH the Midwest, but that's a different discussion), but that's not going to happen without focusing on each sections needs.

I would like to say that, again, I wasn't stating that having a better percussion score would have won a title for Crown in any year. I was simply stating that more focus on percussion is just as needed as with the design. Not sure when it turned into a better percussion will win a championship.

I'm not saying it will, but you have to be consistent across the board to compete for a top 3 spot. Having a 6th place percussion in a less competitive top 6 in 2013 can't compare to the current competitive environment.

All staffs and members work hard. It's still no excuse to have a top 3 brass and guard while the percussion sits in 6th.

I loved 2006. The reprise of the opening hit in the closer gets me every time! 2003 to 2006 all seemed to be in a different era for Crown than 2007 to 2012, and then 2013 to 2016 were a completely different one as well. I refer to them as the 3 Cs era's... The Climb The Campy The Colorful I'd love to revisit the campy years with a fresh take.

Or they realize it's not making them any money.

I've frequented that video so much...

Agreed, because I think the battery was well written into the show. That is the kind of thing that happens. Some sets overall left me scratching my head (i.e. opener hit, ballad hit, the odd arc spanning the entire field at the beginning of the closer), but the percussion was written well into it, however odd it may have been. They definitely weren't an afterthought.

VA was one of the suffering captions. They were 4th. I'm completely on board with emphasizing entertainment. I just think one cohesive idea could be more entertaining and more engaging.

No one is saying it wasn't enjoyable, but there were glaring design issues that we ALL saw and everyone commented on before I joined. Sorry that my comments seem to be triggering everyone.

I hope I'm wrong too, but the performers can only do so much with what they are given. Once these corps who are behind them, i.e. The Cavaliers, Cadets, and possibly Blue Stars, start to sort their "issues" I foresee trouble for Crown. The Cavaliers could have possibly kept up if Covid hadn't hit them hard. Just trying to be realistic here because Cadets made some great strides this year, as did Blue Stars. We shall see what next year holds. I'm honestly not sure what is wrong with the percussion, as I'm nowhere near a percussion, but a focus on that section needs to take place. A top 3 brass and guard can't make up for the lack in the percussion section forever. I don't however believe the drill was the problem.

Thanks for the snarky comment! Maybe you're right, but the talent will eventually start to go elsewhere if results don't start rolling in.

The only envelope pushing part of the Bluecoats show in my opinion was the Keytar. Other than that, it was very much more of the same that we have come to expect out of the Bluecoats in my opinion.

I agree. I understand the change, and supported it with the current events that had happened at the time, but I still wish they hadn't changed it. Layer, but keep the gunshot.

Yes they did, and 6 years to work together is plenty. Look at what the Cadets team has been able to accomplish. They're back in the top 6 after fans were calling for their demise. I think the time to be lenient is over. It's time to start calling for results. I'm not asking for a championship, I'm asking for them to start winning captions again other than brass and to move up in the final standings. The talent is there, but the design team can't figure things out on their end. Crown also needs to have a sit down and focus on percussion. Brass is just fine and will be even if they focus on building their percussion captions. See above. I'm not asking for a championship, I'm asking for better results. The talent is there, but the design team can't figure it out. If they can't figure out how to work together to deliver a single cohesive idea to the field, it's time to start looking elsewhere, and I believe they could do that if one person wasn't standing in their way. Sure the kids are having the time of their lives, especially when there are no scandals coming from the Crown team, but you will start to lose talent if you can't deliver results. That's my opinion, just like you have yours. I'm just speaking from years of experience on the subject. Like it or not, if better results aren't found soon, Crown will start to slip and doors will be left cracked open for others to bust through.

I get paid to do what I do too, which is design. So now you're telling me that I can't speak my opinion from a designers standpoint? Yes, Crown has stayed around 3rd and 4th. That's also called stagnant. We should be seeing some better results after 6 years of working together, and I'm still saying 6 because this show was worked on through Covid as well, and what we got was not one cohesive thought throughout the entire show. The performers got us 4th. The design team would have had us lower if it weren't for the performers on the field, who paid to march with Crown. I'm sorry, but I'm just not buying into the whole "give them time to mesh and flesh" anymore. 6 years to see results, and all we've seen is a fall from 3rd to 4th and staying stagnant. Thank God Crown is still able to pull in the talent.

No. Not at all. I've seen too much Frank Sullivan over the years overdone. I will take the 2002 show before I take a Frank Sullivan show at this point. No disrespect to the man, just too many bands reusing his shows.

Again, naturally. 🤣

Naturally, which is why I asked.

If you see something, say something. What's going on that you know and we don't?

My pleasure. Also if you ever have questions about design or anything marching arts related, feel free to message me. I'm no expert, but I can lend my thoughts and expertise from my experience.

My gripe with the Bluecoats props were pretty simple...what did the Cadillac Ranch have to do with the storyline? The story took place in L.A. and the Cadillac Ranch is in Texas. Pretty confused on that front. Other than that, the props made sense. Props in DCI are starting to be a little more outlandish, and have no ties to the show whatsoever. Blue Devils and their stairs. Crown and their playground equipment. SCV and their Vox Eversio 2.0 props. Blue Stars and their sleigh beds. Phantom and their odd fashion runway (wait, is that what the show was really about? No walk in designer clothes is too far?). There are still props that make sense on the field, but the majority of them just make zero sense to me anymore. Also, what is going on with the useless tarps on the field that really don't do much visually other than add color (when there isn't a glare from the stadium lights shinning off them)? From a designer standpoint, it seems to me like the top high school bands in the nation are starting to push the envelope more than drum corps anymore. SCVs props from 2019 and 2022 are pretty reminiscent of Broken Arrows from 2015. Blue Devils stairs from 2022 and Cadets stairs from 2019 remind me of Blue Springs from 2018 (albeit theirs did not move). Troopers show literally was mirrored from Avon 2015 thematically and visually. BACs cones have been done as well, but I can't quite put my finger on them. We have high school marching bands portraying flight (Flower Mound 2016), portraying a romeo and juliet story told from inside a fishtank with lifesize working fishtank props (Avon 2018), exploding nuclear reactors (Leander 2019), working (rotating) oil drills and rigs (Avon 2015), working water fountains (Russell, Ky 2019 [not exactly a leader in the activity, but I was extremely impressed with that when I saw it at Grand Nationals]), and insert any high school bands name here and their use of lights. I haven't seen anything like these from drum corps, but rather much more of the same. Tarps, stages, stairs, ladders, beds, and abstract props that look like they belong in the Museum of Modern Art. Granted we see more bands in our local areas trying to portray what they see corps doing, but the top notch marching bands in the nation are becoming true leaders when it comes to design. I'm just not understanding the visual design thought process from these DCI designers anymore. Why the monotony? Why more of the same? Why not take risks and be different? The last true risk taken that we have seen was Bluecoats in 2016. Sorry guys, what started out as a simple reply turned into a rant of mass proportions. Please forgive me.

I think it was about Glassmen and the forms collapsing in on themselves in certain curvilinear forms. I honestly and truly can't remember who it was. I just remember the discussion they had of it. I'll see if I can find it on YouTube.

Yes! The revelation of the Crown set is something we all always look forward to, and the discussion of WHEN they will reveal it was always a fun one to read through for me. Having it on the field after 3 competitions I believe (?) seemed a bit much too soon. I will say though, I ADORED that it was a traditional Crown set this year rather than the 2017 and 2018 iterations of "Is that the Crown set? Is it just a couple of jagged lines? I guess it can be interpreted as the Crown set". Yes!!! I liked that the Crown expanded, but it definitely dissolved MUCH too soon. It could have warped or something. Also, am I the only one that was disappointed that the prop wasn't made into a drill set with follow the leader marching so that it looked like it was rotating/moving (a la the cube and pyramids from 2012 and 2013 respectably)? I felt like that was a huge miss. They could have had the circle in the closer leading up to the Crown set dissolve into a prop mimicking set with follow the leader movement and then dissolved it into the Crown set.