JimF-LowBari

Relying on my memory here (look out folks) but this is about the third or fourth time I've seen Brians (Northern Thunder) list of corps discussed since I joined DCP. During those times many folks have tried to use the numbers (now a chart) to suit their ideas. I have never seen Brian or anyone else say "We came up with this info to show....". I always had the idea that the year by year list of corps was more of a reference tool to show what corps (or at least the number of corps) were active in any particular year. To me it's a set of numbers showing what corps were active in any given year. And that's all the chart is saying. IMO, some folks are trying to read between the lines when the only thing between the lines is blank paper <$1 to friend of mine>. IOW, I don't think there is a conclusion to the numbers/chart, it's just a listing of information. rut-roh - if I can find them I'll PM you links to threads discussing why DC went down so badly in the 60s/70s. Problem is it's been a while and I can't remember off hand what was discussed in DCP and what was in RAMD. Interesting, if depressing, history lesson on our activity.

OK, for this years St Patricks Day Parade Hanover was described in the Harrisburg paper as "the Alumni unit of the the Lancers Drum corps". Ahhhh..... there is no longer a competative corps so we're a unit by ourselves I guess... maybe... whatever Also the paper hit 50% percent. First part called us a corps, later on the B word (band) was used. :P

OK, you lost me on this one: Counting competative corps only - OK Counting all corps - OK Counting corps (except parade) corps (IMO, would be in bwteen the other two options) - Not OK.... As for every time period see my response to rut-roh. From what I can tell the decline in corps began in the 60s or so.

As someone who is trying to do that in the Senior corps world all I can say is "Rotsa Ruck"..... Besides DCA and DCI keeping tabs on their own circuit most records are found in back issues of DC newspapers and programs sitting in peoples attics. There are a few sites on line (srcorps, corpsreps, dbcna, eriethunderbirds, etc) that have a lot of info but a <bleep> of a lot of THAT depends on people like us feeding them data (been there, done that). Crap.... according to "History of Drum Corps" (another great reference) the American Legion came #### close to throwing out all of the records and pictures from their National Shows (ca. 1921-1980). This massive of amount of data was saved only because Bob Zinko(sp?) pushed like Hades to save it. My guess is 1972 was picked because it was a "Historic" year for Jr corps......

Or how many DCI events were there in 1972? Took a few years until DCI became the Junior corps circuit.

Renaissance out of York (South Central) PA is currently a parade corps and working toward being a Div II or III (I think) corps in the future. Think the parade corps is All Age (or at least it was) until enough $$$$ is raised. http://www.renaissancedbc.com/rdbc/index.php

Re-read Brians post, no where did he use the word "competing" he said "actually performed". If I remember right from reading about this chart before this includes parade and standstill corps. IOW if they played in front of an audience and Brian heard about them, then they are included.

Ditto on the thanks Brian, interesting reading for a DC history nut. Thanks for posting the straight numbers and thanks for the explaination. Somehow I thought the numbers were for competative corps. See I was mistaken.

What's the status of Lake Erie Regiment this year. Jeez, looking at the PA Juniors that are not around this year. Only good sign is someone is trying to start a Jr corps in the York (Central PA) area. Other than that :(

Big two sponsors prior to DCA/DCI were VFW and American Legion. For the Jr side a lot of (mainly Catholic) churches had corps as a youth activity. In fact one of the reasons for creation of DCA and later DCI was problems with AL/VFW style of judging which was based more on military bearing than entertainment value. A thread about why so many corps going under in the 60s/70s pops up about every 18 months or so on DCP or RAMD. In a nutshell the biggies (IMO) were decline of AL/VFW Posts and churches (and everything else) in the cities which cut the budgets of many sponsors. That is, if the Posts or churches themselves didn't just close up totally. Also when gas went from 29 cents a gallon to $1.00/gallon that nailed a lot of corps running on shoestring budgets. Especially corps who were located in the middle of no where and had their bus bills explode.

D'OH.... Keep forgetting about the search by year option..... Thanks... Quit looking at the pictures and start reading Jimbo.....

OK, ten years ago I was in the middle of my ten year hiatus from following corps. Only thing I know (maybe) from that time is what I've read. And what I read makes me cringe. OK again brain fart from my 48 year old mind, I missed "competative". Open question to anyone who knows than I do about the Junior corps world (and that's about everyone). What Junior corps competitions still exist outside of the DCI umbrella? And are there any good sites that list the results of Junior shows over the years? I'm currently researching when certain Sr corps have competed but running into a brick wall on the Jr side for some reason.

Sounds like my colleges..... Including the MB of one where I spent all of one year....

Thinking the same thing Mike but I can't remember for sure the two or three people who came up with this. From the little I do remember, the early numbers came from researching thru old DC newspapers, scores and anything else that could be found. Can't remember if the numbers include non-competative corps or not.

Not a bash but finally I see how far back you are going (10 years). As I saw mentioned before 10 years ago both Jr and Sr corps were going thru a very bad time. Glad things are better now but I'll wait another 10 years before I try to find a long term trend. If you count Alumni type corps I can believe it. Of course the bad news is most of those corps came from competative corps that no longer exist. One night I figured out there are more Alumni corps in my home state than competative corps combined. And only one of those Alumnis still has a competative corps (Buccs).

Don't know why I never think of this when I'm posting about number of corps and shows "back in the day". One of my usual DC reference sites. www.srcorps.com This site has all the Senior corps scores that one of our fellow RAMD/DCPers has found. Check out the decades to see a partial listing of what was going on during those years. I check it from time to time and just shake my head at what used to be. And this doesn't even list the parade and non-competative corps. (Not so shameless plug from a not so shameless lug) If anyone has scores that are not listed please contact Ron so he can add them.

Can't see the chart because I'm at work and the chart is blocked. *sigh* In the 70s and 80s there were other Jr and Sr circuits besides DCI and DCA. If what you said about the chart listing DCA/DCI Champ attendees only is true, then the chart is way low in the number of 70s/80s Sr corps. Were a lot of smaller Sr corps who never bothered to go to DCA, their big show was the small circuit Championships. All Age corps appear to be on the rise in the last few years, but nothing like from my time.

Speaking as one who discovered Drum Corps in 1974 I would say there has been a decline since then in more than just the number of corps. Less shows, smaller crowds at shows that still exist, entire DCI Champs used to be televised (was THE fund raising night in my area) and in general a lot less time DC spends in front of the public eye (parades, public appearances, etc, etc). Also used to be a time when a local corps was something the community knew about and some places took pride about. Ahhhh, what's a local corps anymore? OK, found these last month and appropiate here. Have two comic strips from the 70s that mention "Drum & Bugle Corps" as part of the punch line. These strips were from nationally syndicated comics (not from DCW). Anyone think these comics could get run today and have the general population get the D&BC reference?

Here's one I caught from the 1970 or 1971 DCA Albums. "... here's the Les Diplomats". Ahhh, I could check Christine from Brigs but think he just said "the" twice, just in different languages. And the announcer (Wes Hobby?) said it twice, once at the start and once at the end of the show.... Kinda being redundant.... again... :P

Have done that during outdoor rehearsals. Only we moved to the center of the parking lot and grouped in so no one else could hear what was being said. Our drill rehearshals were held on a city owned parking lot so no way we could close those. Inside were held in a local school so no one got in unless they had a real good reason to be there. We didn't want to loose the practice site due to some idiot who snuck in.

When I first started marching two seasons later I thought the big guns like Sky and Cabs were full of guys (yeah all male then) in their 30s or so. Guess I should have looked closer at Cabs drum line. :P

:P I'll get my sister to kick Marks butt since they know each other from High School. As for Ben and Wally, #### They don't wanta fight 'cause they are afraid they would spill their beer. Just found out where we'll be staying at Ro-cha-cha and SIB in two weeks. Life is good. :) OOOOOOPPPPPPSSSSS :sshh: See this was directed at Ben.... Thought you were kickin' my tail for dropping out and saying the three of 'em would get me..... Jeeesh!!!

Listed in the local paper as the "West Shiremen" instead of Westshoremen. Writer must have been thinking of the little town of "Shiremanstown" while tying or had a brain fart. Was told a few years ago that my first corps spelled it "Kavaliers". Strange part is I have a jacket in the basement spelled "Cavaliers". Ooooopppppsssss..... (Judys' post jogged that memory.)

Hope to do the same and will PM or email the T-Birds closer to the time. Jeez, haven't met Scott yet either.

Also only had only one seat which was for the driver. For a "seat" Benny threw in an old metal trunk that Paul and I sat on wherever we went. Still can't believe we never got pulled over by a cop in all the years we rode in that beast. That and the thermometer for the refridgerated part of the truck was rusted solid. Couldn't even read that bas-tich..... Heh, and my mom thought riding with Benny was a better experience for a teenager than driving myself. :P Still everytime I drive by Wolfs Diner in Dillsburg I think of Benny as he refused to go to a fast food joint. We must have eaten in every greasy spoon up and down Rt 15. Oh crud, I've got practice in Hanover tomorrow. Hellooooo Wolfs Diner. Helloooo Benny flashbacks.