oldtimedrummer

The drum set that Buddy used, and Gene Krupa before him, is designed for traditional grip. The drummer sits off-center-to-the-left and the toms move to the right. If you watch those guys, a lot of their stuff on the toms is done with one hand while the left continues to dance on the snare. Matched grip makes more sense for kits that are more symmetrically designed or which have a wide array of components from left to right. In an interview in Modern Drummer years ago, Max Weinberg explained that Buddy Rich had told him that he should switch to traditional otherwise he wouldn't be able to get any facility out of the kit. That's a great way to describe it, and that makes sense for that type of kit. Conversely, the great teacher Freddy Gruber convinced Neil Peart to switch to traditional grip and there has been criticism that he is not able to go at the kit in the way he had when he played matched grip. The most relevant thing to which grip to employ, then, has to do with how the kit is set up -- and the type of music. That's a great point about the kit set up. It's interesting that you mentioned Neil Peart. While I respect his ability to rock with the best, he has trouble really swinging. The Burning for Buddy recording is a good example of not swinging. How long has Peart been playing traditional?? Of course, Buddy's rock groves had an underlying swing feel to them too. Your point about kit set up and musical style is a good one.

Good point, I probably lean toward traditional because I play mostly Jazz and Big Band stuff, although I do use matched at times too. It's funny, sometimes the musical style feels more comfortable with a particular grip. I was an am influenced the great set players that play(ed) traditional. Max Roach, Buddy, Belson, Butch Miles, Gadd, Dave Weckl, Bissinotte sp?, Elvin Jones, Blakey, Peter Erskin on & on ..... Based on their playing, these guys all make a pretty strong case for the viability of traditional grip.

Cheezedogg makes some good points, however, explain Buddy Rich ? How was he able to play like he did with tradtional grip? Or Belson, or Grupa, Blakey, Gadd, Butch Miles, Weckl, Etc, Etc, Etc... (The greatest drummer ever played traditional). All in the interest of the debate.

Well, I guess we'll agree to disagree on this one. In almost all sports, the weaker, or non dominant hand does something different. Try eating using your "other" hand, or throwing a ball using your other arm. It's unnatural. Using your own example, in baseball, the non-dominat hand catches the ball, in boxing the non-dominat hand jabs. Look at the hand position on the guitar, way different. On the set, the left hand often plays ghost notes while the right rides, which is way different musically. I'm not trying to argue here, it's a great debate. I respect your point of view and I see your logic, even though I don't agree.

To me, traditional is easier, but then again I was raised on traditional so I'm probably biased, but I don't really think there's that big of a difference.

Yes they do throw differently because they are one handed or the other. That's my point exactly. A right hander throws with his right hand, and a lefty with his left, That's different!!! They throw with their dominate arm. That's why some leftys play traditional backwards. I would buy your argument if athletes threw the ball equally well with each arm.

They should play differently in each hand because one hand is dominate and one is weak.. Just like an athlete doesn't throw the ball the same with each arm. I've been playing for a long time and playing trad isn't any harder on the brain. If anything it's more natural. Look at boxing. You don't use both arms in the same manner. One jabs, the other is a hook, one hand out in front, the other back. It would be unnatural to use both arms in exactly the same way.

I disagree. Pitchers only pitch with one arm, so when they're throwing the ball it's not a mirrored image. They're not right handers one day and left handers the next. In basketball, shooters have a hand they prefer to shoot with and dribble with. Almost everyone has an inherent strong/weak side make up that in not mirrored. You don't write with your left hand as well as your right. Tennis, bowling, boxing, almost any sport really, has this strong/weak side concept. In my thinking, this inherent strong/weak side make-up might apply to drumming as well. As, I mentioned in an earlier post, I've seen leftys play traditional backwards quite well. A tennis player doesn't switch raket hands after each point to play a mirrored match. Conducting is the same way, it would feel very awkward to switch baton hands.

Some very interesting stuff. I've used both grips over the years, but still like trad over matched for marching and set work. It's one of those things that technically isn't suppose to work as well, but it just does for some odd reason. I think maybe because we all have a dominate side, (hand, ear, eye, etc) playing matched feels uncomfortable, like trying to throw a baseball with both arms at the same time, and trad gives a better balance. I've seen some lefty's play trad backwards so that's why I'm thinking this dominate side/balance thing might be a factor. You usually can't throw a ball as well with each arm , although, your arms are made the same. Maybe it's the same thing with drumming. Just a guess. When you look at some of the greats like Buddy, it's hard to argue too much against traditional.

we,..............the Dal Demons feared the Golden Triangles,.................. I remember those Corps from weastern PA. Wasn't Tom Float from one of those?

Yeah, I remember that show, and you're right, that hornline was red hot. I might have that record, but I have no turntable. Didn't they finish 2nd in brass that year? I think they closed with Stars and Stripes too. They did indeed had a great hornline.

attacks/releases, intonation, tone quality, phrasing, musical interp., articulation, timing, etc...like he said

The only corps to beat SCV that year, They could play.

How about Bridgemens " My Favorite Things" anybody remember what year that was? I'm thinking early 70's

Is that Hixons fault that he became director? Or should the blame go to the BOD for not searching a little more? Not trying to argue, I just think the BOD does play a big role.

I watch those two shows often, and that is one tough call. For me, I think Star missing that last set might have tipped the scale for me toward toward Cadets. I also think the esoteric quality of their music might have hurt them in GE, but we're splitting hairs for sure. One of the closest calls ever, both great corps.

Paul, NBTA still exist. If I'm not mistaken, they usually hold there Nationals at Notre Dame (SP?) A friend of mine has been apart of that association for over 30 years. Her groups have won many awards at the national level. I believe she said they do have an indoor guard class......but it's mostly baton twirlers who do not have or know the basic techniques for rifle, saber or flag. Granted they can do something pretty cool moves, like the "fish tail" or an illusion with guard equipment, but they lack basic skills. There was also USTA which was started by Fred Miller and George Wallbridge. USTA also had drum and baton corps and musical corps which were all brass and percussion. Millers Blackhawks use to march over 100 on a basketball floor. I also think Tom Float got his start in a drum and baton corps from Pittsburg and George Shepard was in a d& baton corps from Maryland called Shepards Pink Panthers..... run by his mother. I know BD use to have twirling teams in USTA. Also, wasn't BD originally named the Marianetts sp??

But sometimes you left concert out for prelims.

,.......................many young drummers in the Erie area started in the drumline of Dal Demons Baton and Drum Corps and eventually went on to the Erie Mavericks and Erie Thunderbirds,...................I spent 7 years with The Demons and competed against the Modernettes many times as a kid in the early 70's,.................we had coverted our glocks into flat 2 mallet bell units, had xylos, vibes, a marimba, etc. like the Modernettes...................... at our peak we had about 30 or so in the percussion section with kids ranging in age from 8 to 18,.............. Look back at Fred Miller and Millers Blackhawks before they just a winter guard. At one time he had a 55man hornline and at least 30 in the drumline, all based around baton twilers, and they were good too.