Rifuarian

This is a perfectly fine post, and you're not a troll . . . but there are 2 or 3 or more threads on the first few pages of this forum on this subject. No need to start a new one.

That's okay . . . my corps is gone, but if it was around I'd be defensive about it too! And I often feel the same way about my sister's corps. Reading drum corps stuff on Facebook, Twitter, and (especially) YouTube does make me appreciate DCP.

That's what I gathered as well. I don't know how anyone could find an insult in something so innocuous.

Yes, that tweet was clearly offensive. That's not the one being discussed.

What is it that's so offensive about his tweet?

I love Christmas music. There is so much great stuff written for Christmas, classical and popular . . . much of which would be perfect for drum corps. Cavies 91 is one of my favorite shows from that corps, and other than a few little things here and there I really enjoy Cadets this season (that Charlie Brown clip was so loud and unexpected I jumped out of my seat the first time I heard it). The problem most people have with Christmas music stems from the phenomenon of Christmas creep. Each and every year we get Christmas crammed down our throats a little bit earlier. It's pretty annoying, and two months of it is enough to drive anyone over the edge, especially if you work somewhere that pipes in Xmas music. Another issue is that a lot of Christmas music falls into the novelty category. This leads many of us to classify all Christmas music as novelty, even when much of it is very serious, quality stuff.

Funny thing about DCP and drum corps in general: The kids get criticized all the time. It's kind of the MO of drum corps. Performance issues that fall mainly on the shoulders of the marchers get harped on all the time and no one bats an eye. It's only when the decisions made by the adults - regarding design, etc. - are discussed that people truly get upset and start whining about how stupid the fans are who don't "get" it, how mean those cranky dinosaurs are on DCP, how such-and-such judge "has it in" for their corps, etc. I always thought this was a funny little quirk of drum corps. Doesn't have anything to do with this thread, but neither does your whinging rant. As for BD: It's great stuff but it ain't innovative.

You are right that some of these artists weaseled their way out of fighting one way or the other. My point is that this does not necessarily make them cowards. Rather they did not feel like dying for a cause they didn't believe in . . . but would gladly die for a cause they felt was right. Was it fair? No. As you say, most who fought in the war had little choice. The Republican faction in the Spanish Civil War was not wholly communist, it just received support from communists . . .mainly because the opposition was backed by Fascists. Most of the Dadaists did have some Communist sympathies . . . but hindsight is 20/20. Commmunism was still mostly theory at the time, it was impossible to know what shape it would ultimately take when put into practice. Yes, the Dadaists did shoehorn their beliefs into their art. But this is the case with almost all art, to some extent.

Fsubone, I wrote this response in an earlier post but effed up the posting, so I don't know if you or anyone else actually saw it: I'm no fan of Dadaism, but your assessment isn't completely fair. Some of the Dadaists were rich, certainly most of them were pretentious, but most of them weren't cowards. Several Dadaists went on to fight in the Spanish Civil War on the side of the Republicans, some fought in various resistance movements in WWI. Some tried to enlist but were turned away for various reasons. The movement, like all art movements at that time, was heavily German . . . and many of the Germans were horrified at the aggression showed by their nation, particularly towards neutral countries such as Belgium. Imperial Germany was by no means a totalitarian dictatorship, but voicing your opposition to the war was by no means an easy thing to do (likewise in all the countries that participated, including the US). Additionally, many of the more serious, thoughtful responses to the war - often by men who served in the conflict - were very much influenced by Dada even if they weren't Dadaist themselves. My favorite of these is Otto Dix. As a historian I find World War I and the period surrounding it to be endlessly fascinating and complex. It's overshadowed by WWII, which is unfortunate because I consider the Great War to be the more important of the two. The upshot of this is that many of us today know very little about this point in time, making it too easy to make snap judgments about the actions or inaction of those lived through it all. Good discussion, though it has sweet FA to do with BD's show. Old school VK might have been able to teach as a thing or two about Dada. That was a corps that was very serious about being non-serious.

I'm no fan of Dadaism, but your assessment isn't completely fair. Some of the Dadaists were rich, certainly most of them were pretentious, but most of them weren't cowards. Several Dadaists went on to fight in the Spanish Civil War on the side of the Republicans, some fought in various resistance movements in WWI. Some tried to enlist but were turned away for various reasons. The movement, like all art movements at that time, was heavily German . . . and many of the Germans were horrified at the aggression showed by their nation, particularly towards neutral countries such as Belgium. Imperial Germany was by no means a totalitarian dictatorship, but voicing your opposition to the war was by no means an easy thing to do (likewise in all the countries that participated, including the US). Additionally, many of the more serious, thoughtful responses to the war - often by men who served in the conflict - were very much influenced by Dada even if they weren't Dadaist themselves. My favorite of these is Otto Dix. As a historian I find World War I and the period surrounding it to be endlessly fascinating and complex. It's overshadowed by WWII, which is unfortunate because I consider the Great War to be the more important of the two. The upshot of this is that many of us today know very little about this point in time, making it too easy to make snap judgments about the actions or inaction of those lived through it all. Good discussion, though it has sweet FA to do with BD's show. Old school VK might have been able to teach as a thing or two about Dada. That was a corps that was very serious about being non-serious.

I hadn't seen this show in its entirety until Saturday . . . let me just say that I love, love, love Crossmen 2012! It might be tough for them to break into finals, but I don't care. Finals or not, Fragile is a leading candidate for my personal show of the year.

Cabaret Voltaire is a very nice WGI-style with some clever references to Dadaism. The show itself is not all that Dada. It's more or less what we all expect from the Blue Devils based on their recent past. Rather than placing themselves outside the world competition and ridiculing and shocking BD embraces it . . . these masters of the judging sheets are in it to win it. The show is mind-blowing in design and execution, but it seems to me to be an incredibly high-quality example of all the current thinking in marching arts design, rather than something new, shocking, or innovative. I love every bit of it all the same.

Keeping in mind that I'm pro A&E, I'd say it pretty much is accurate. With your pop music performances, even by all-acoustic acts (of which there are many, and still very popular), all the voices are at least amplified using quality equipment. You don't have some purely acoustic and some electronically enhanced. You don't have dozen or so different instruments being amplified through a single speaker. The set-up is carefully calibrated for the venue hours in advance by a professional or at least very experienced staff, the mixing board is controlled by someone experienced. In drum corps you have low or midranged equipment being used across a wide variety of venues, with only minutes for set-up. Because of constraints of time and budget you only have two sets of speakers at opposite ends of the pit, which means the sound is only ideal (relatively speaking) in one part of the stadium. For the most part, the people making the decisions with regards to the electronics are experts in brass or percussion . . . not electronics. The judges are likewise experts in brass and percussion, not electronics, so they are unable or unwilling to offer valuable feedback (and actual real live drum corps staffers have posted in this thread confirming this to be true). I think electronics could be a great tool for drum corps. It's already seen some great uses. Nonetheless, I think even those of us who are for this kind of thing need to recognize the true situation of electronics in drum corps, rather than pretending everything is ideal and that everything is "moving forward", whatever that means.

I never thought otherwise. I know the Mid-Atlantic states in particular have quite a few, though I've always been led to believe that the situation in New England is pretty dire. But even without counting Texas I still feel the South easily has more bands than the Northeast . . . keeping in mind that the SE as defined by the census bureau has 20 million more people living in it than the NE.

Err . . . what? There are plenty of stereotypes about the South, some true, some not. This is the first I've ever heard of this one. Wish it were true though. Then maybe my parents wouldn't have had me strip all that god####ed tobacco every year. Once again, recruitment is not the problem in the South. Lots and lots of Southern kids in drum corps, lots more who want to march. The problemsare: 1. Drum corps never thrived in the South during the "Golden Age", for various reasons. 2. Non-Southern corps holding camps and auditions in the South which, alongside the number of these corps within easy driving distance of the South, draw kids away. 3. General lack of adults with enough experience and competence to keep a corps on the field, which IMO is directly related to problem 1.

Yeah, the problem isn't that there aren't enough kids. The problem is with the adults . . . and the other factors mentioned in my first post. This is true, though it's pretty much the case in much of the country (and let's not forget the kids that fly in from abroad). Usually the solution is to audition with someone else from your school or from nearby schools. But that's not always an option. Usually the biggest hurdle is working up the courage to go. My sister is in her second year at a G7 corps. She's immensely talented, but it took me a long time to encourage her to go . . . once she got to the camp she was fine. Her only regret is not trying sooner!

There's no need to apologize, or to edit! Honestly, I used to think the same thing about California. Even southerners can be willfully ignorant about the band situation in the South. That's because they compare it to places such as Indiana, and aren't really aware of what things are like in other parts of the country. Band is reasonably healthy throughout much of the South. Texas is always a slippery subject. Like kickhalts says, it's usually best to keep it in its own category. Except for when you need to prove a point.

Read Stranger in a Strange Land. Great book! And I don't mean to be insulting, but you are completely, totally wrong about this. It's okay . . . a lot of Southerners don't seem to realize it either. Like you they just count up the elite programs and forget about the rest.

Just because you haven't heard of them doesn't mean they aren't there. I'm completely serious when I say the South has more corps style bands than any other part of the country, especially if you include Texas (and I think you should). My home state of Kentucky has roughly 140 corps style scholastic bands. Tennesee, the Carolinas, Georgia, and Florida all have highly active band communities. Alabama and Mississippi have a fair number of bands themselves. There may be not be as many elite programs (but again, if you include Texas the South easily has more of these than any other part of the country) but there are hundreds of smaller bands of a reasonable level of quality. Show bands may be the most well-known type of band to come out of the South, but corps bands have outnumbered in many, many places. Your other two points are more or less correct. A lot of the bands are from rural areas where kids struggle to afford marching band. Drum corps is most usually out of the question, particularly when there are so few open class options left.

As a proud Southerner, I don't think the South is that bad off when it comes to corps, particularly if you include Texas in the count (I do, but there's always a debate about where Texas fits in). Currently active Southern corps are Crown, Music City, Crossmen, Forte, Genesis, Revolution, SoA, Carolina Gold, CorpsVets, Tampa Bay Thunder, and Shenandoah Sound. There may be more. Obviously that's not nearly so many as we have in the Northeast or California, but it's not too bad. Why aren't there more? And why do Southern corps have a history of folding in spectacular fashion? A few reasons I can think of. First of all, "drum corps" as a phenomenon never really took off in the South. The Golden Age of drum corps was centered on the Rust Belt in the Northeast and Upper Midwest . . . populous, industrialized parts of the country. Why that is is an interesting discussion, but there's no need to go into the reasons now. Just go to www.corpsreps.com and peruse through the list of corps (more than 2000 American corps are listed and that's nowhere near being a complete list). Notice how many were from New York, Massachusetts, Connecticut, etc. and how few were in the South. What the South does have a lot of is competitive, corps style marching bands. Probably more than any other part of the country. So there is a huge market for drum corps. Why do we have relatively few corps? First off, because there are so many great non-Southern corps within easy reach of the South. In my home state of Kentucky kids can get to Bluecoats, Scouts, Blue Stars, Glassmen, Cavies, Phantom, etc. in a few hours. Kids from Tennessee don't have that much further to drive. Furthermore, a good many non-Southern corps holds auditions in the South, making it easier for kids to march them. Almost all the big guys have camps in Texas. And Boston Crusaders, for instance, are practically based in Florida. Why do so many Southern corps fold? Well, historically they haven't really folded at a higher rate compared to corps from other parts of the country. The fact that there were never many corps in the South to begin with may be part of the problem. There simply isn't that much drum corps experience in the South, so corps are often started up by newbies. I was in one of those and it wasn't pretty. Often you have the same guys who carry the same bad habits from failed corps to failed corps. Those are some of the reasons I can think of. History of drum corps and band in the South is kind of a pet topic of mine, so thanks for asking about it.

While I certainly agree that BD is engaging the audience, it does seem as though any audience reaction, or lake thereof, could be construed as "engagement" on the part of a corps. Which is why I wish it hadn't been included on the new sheets. But it's probably being ignored by the judging community anyways, so I guess it doesn't really matter.

If it's going to be used, it should be felt and not really heard. The problem is that the sound usually comes from two speaker set-ups at the ends of the pit, so that in order for the sound to be felt in the press-box it means huge parts of the audience get a face full of WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAM the entire night. If the thunderous goo could somehow come from the backfield it would be a different story. But that would probably be much too complicated given the limited amount of time corps have for setup (another problem with drum corps electronics). I'm actually very pro-electronics, but I find it pretty distressing to see even the most elite corps fumble around with them like amateurs, year after year.

That's very true, and by no means do I think the two situations are similar. My point is that in a situation like this if you're unable to offer a full and honest explanation it may be better to say nothing. Half-arsing it can be more insulting than satisfying. Though as you say above there are probably no words that could be completely satisfying to the kids, parents, etc.

Different corps, same old story. Been there myself, unfortunately. There's a lot more left unsaid than said in this letter, but I doubt it's anything we haven't heard a thousand times before. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this director had only been at Teal since last year and no doubt faced an impossible situation. It's hard thing to come in as a brand new director and tell your members that they have to pay or there won't be a corps this summer. But it's gotta be done, otherwise you face disaster and humiliation. There's no sense trying to pass the buck. Like the Revolution director's "statement" on DCP last season, this letter demonstrates why sometimes it's best to say nothing at all.

Wow . . . I'd really hate to hear what you feel about Phantom's show.