MikeD

Like events are a good indicator. Those are hard numbers put out by DCI. Show me your hard numbers where attendance is not on the rise, if you think it is not. Just because YOU don't like DCI today, doesn't mean "discontent is at an all time high". The numbers of fans, the numbers auditioning, the deals with Regal and ESPN2 seem to point to quite the opposite.

What "problems", outside of the internet forums? Keep thinking that, as wrong as it an be. Poor decisions? Attendance is going up...drum corps is on ESPN2...great numbers at tryouts...1/4 finals at Regal....old time drum corps from every decade of DCI at Regal voted by the fans (you know...the corps you think DCI ignores)...marvelous shows to please a variety of tastes, from Regiment to Cadets...and in between.

That's just your opinion. Mine is different. Drum corps image is performance excellence and intensity.

Hasn't DCI been bringing in alumni corps at champs to give the fans a taste of "what was"? From reading here various corps managements do ideed talk about the history and traditions of their corps. It's not managements job to act as the thought police, BTW. And as for actions by current members...how about the actions of older alumni who mock and complain about what these younger members are doing? Respect is earned, not given.

Dan, I saw a link on the YEA! forums...I'll see if I can find it again. Here it is.... http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=38...776102&q=cadets Mike

No, I don't see it as you do. I think that a new division for any instrumentation would be used by a select few who want to go that route. If all of them eventually did, it would be because it was a huge success. Those are HS groups who have their season in the fall during school. Marching bands run the gamut of performance levels, from raw beginners to DCI-divI-level with BOA finalists, but in general their season is not condusive to single focussed itensity like the summer activity. It's not the "problem" of drum corps fans in any way. They'd still be drum corps, if the DCI BOD voted to permit the new division, just with WW and electronics as newly legal instruments. Mike

I was responding in kind to Garry, where he said..."The image is brass, percussion and color guard. The anything-goes people are the ones trying to destroy the image." Why is it OK to make a comment like that? Because you agree with him? I do not happen to think the image of drum corps is defined by it's instrumentation. Just MHO after seeing all sorts of changes since I started marching in 1964. Mike

When it comes to junior drum corps, it is indeed DCI that defines the rules...therefore they define drum corps. Yes, the rules stated long ago, but they have been changing for decades and decades. It is still "drum corps" even as the horns are not bugles, the guards do not guard the colors, and percussion of all sorts has replaced "just drums". MLB has evolved over time as well...the designated hitter in the AL, for example. Go back to the 19th century and the fielder could throw the ball at the batter on his way to first...if he hit the guy...he was out. The spitter was legal back in the day. Equipment has undergone enormous change. The ball itself has changed over time, becoming more or less live depending on the era. Personally, I say "too bad" for those who have stopped being able to accept change. If DCI created a division where WW are legal, than yes, a corps in that division would indeed be participating in drum corps. It is not making it "something else", IMO. I totally disagree. The experience of drum corps includes the performances...adding WW and electronics does nothing to lessen that experience, IMO. The original practice died the first time a rule was changed then. I think the BOD will only vote in somethig like WW if they think it IS in the best interest of drum corps...to help it survive...I think it is far away, sad to say. Those who support the changes are not "doing the opposite"...we think that it is in drum corps best interest. Mike

The point is that people were up in arms back then about a lot of nothing...as these changes would be. Cavies 1971. :)

Because I think these changes have been all for the better...and finishing them up is a positive thing...and the right thing to do. IMO the tradition of drum corps is change and innovation, and I hope it never stops.

I was responding in kind to Garry, where he said..."The image is brass, percussion and color guard. The anything-goes people are the ones trying to destroy the image." But it is not equally ludicrous to have the opposite opinion, as Garry does? That those of us who believe there is a place for WW and electronics are trying to destroy the "image of drum corps"? How is that fair? That is what my comment was aimed at. I do not feel that the image of drum corps is tied to the instrumentation. It never has been...they have been changing for 1/2 a century. I've given my take on that many times...a few items about that... 1) IMO there is just so much summer marching/music on a national scale that will be supportable in today's environment....and DCI exists nicely to fill that niche. IMO starting a new circuit would put both at far greater risk than keeping them under one umbrella. 2) Drum corps has been moving bandward for 1/2 a century, so these changes would hardly be out of the blue, if they were to take place. 3) These changes will take place ONLY when the BOD decides they should...Much of what we are discussing, esp the WW, remains far away, IMO. I think we'll see electronics first. Having a division where any instrumentation is permitted provides far more diversification than there is today, so you should be in support of this idea. By your statments above, a show having ONLY brass/percussion is far less desirable than a show that might have a few of those groups, plus a few with electronics, and maybe a couple with WW and electronics. Thanks for making my point. :) As for religion....people go to other parts of the world all the time to tell the people who live in those areas that their religion is indeed wrong, and that they are bringing the TRUE one to save them. You can have corps and bands at the same show and get the best of both if DCI creates a new division for them. There are no Cadet-level competitive bands for people to march in, BTW..

That reminds me of the old "The Day Drum Corps Died" t-shirt from 1971 and Dick Blake's tirades im Drum Corps News...all because of themed shows by the Scouts, Cavies, and Garfield. The 'anythng goes' people like me want to continue what has been happening for 1/2 a century...those who are against it are the ones who want to destroy the image of drum corps.

The crowd on Saturday in A'town was by no means dead.

No, it doesn't happen less and less. Respecting tradition and honoring the past does not mean replicating them, unless you are an alumni corps. What year do you find acceptable to replicate if you think you have to use the same instruments, music, and drills in order to show that respect. Cadets started in 1934...do the changes made since 1934 mean that those traditions were not beig honored? First they'd have to kick out all the females in the corps. IMO honoring the past means that they continue to strive for excellence as they have always done.

Yes...the pride and intensity and overall experience provided by corps at every level.

If these new elements were passed, those who join on them are not infringing on anything. And oh, yes, where is the Cadets-level summer marching ensemble a WW player can join? Mike

IMO DCI is the best place to house the entire sumer junior marching/music activity...I do not think a new organization would work very well in this day and age. Does DCI have to do anything? No...IMO it will happen if and when the BOD thinks it is in the best interest of it's member corps. Electronics first, WW later. Mike

I thought they spun flags, not that they themselves spun. :P

Not really. Do kids try out for region and all-state ensembles during the school year? Sure... Do kids attend summer music camps? Yes.... The experience of summer drum corps will still be the defining factor, IMO. An ensemble based during the school year will just not be able to have the same level of single-focussed intensity. That is where the "Something Different" comes in. The addition of new instruments hardly make a difference, IMO. Mike

Nothing in what you spoke about the drum corps experience would exclude WW and electronics. Add WW to the Cadets and they are still the Cadets...same experience, same energy, same intensity, etc... Mike

All opinions should be welcome...reading on.... :) I guess my own opinion is that 'why' should these people have no ability to audition and perform on their chosen instrument. Maybe some can pick up another instrument and spend months trying to learn it well enough to march in SOME div I corps, but IMO it would be beneficial to the members, the audience, and DCI if there were a division in DCI where an ensemble that freely chooses may add WW and otrher instruments...thereby providing the place for these people to march w/o sacrificing their main instrument. Anyone already in a corps most likely would not be saying that...I know there are others who have posted in the band forums who do not audition because they are WW players, guitar players, pianio players...just anecdotal evidence, of course. The change to permit those instruments will come, if ever, when the BOD thinks it in the best long-term interest of DCI, anecdotal stories on either side notwithstanding. Personally, I wish it would happen now. In reality, I think we'll see electronics long before WW. Playing WW in the fall in colder climates, as is done in bands all over the country, has it's own set of challenges, yet has been happening for decades and decades. IMO those issues will be "doable" when their time comes. Mike

It doesn't have to be, but that is one way it can be enjoyed. One good thing about drum corps is that there can be a show like the Zone and another one like Regiment's Gershwin...both are, IMO, equally enjoyable. Yes, you should. j/k Mike

IMO their show was VERY accessible to the fans in the stands. Mike

I did too. Doesn't mean anything, esp today. Tough to pick up a trumpet cold and audition for the BD against people with 10 years+ experience on the horn. Mike

Never said they think "ill" of it. And of some want to spend a year or two learning a brass instrument before trying out for the Cadets or Regiment, fine. IMO I'd like to see them be able to stay on the instrument they chose to master and still march with them, if the corps choose to go that route. The pre-teen thing I'm not understanding as an analogy. As for the Cavies and Scouts...I don't see them turning women away...as they don't try out. Personally, I wish both would become coed, but that is just MHO. Mike