HoltonH178

Marty, you and I clearly have a good more amount in common than I realized. I won't get into specifics, but pretty much the biggest difference between yours and my story is that instead of having a local corps to join, I became a part of my HS's band. Personally, I can't blame DCI. My childhood was inately private by comparison, and the role that drum corps used to play in our society is simply not, in my opinion, the same as the way that it can practically survive today. There are many good lessons to be learned from your day, and as crazy or upsetting as this might sound, I view its critical role--as a home team, in a community environment--will be the banner of HS programs in the future. This is a good thing. The path to doing the right thing for the activity is the ability to adapt and excel in our circumstance, whatever shape it may take. I've noticed lately a lot of quality in your posts, and I do appreciate that.

As nice as it may be to think about it, a lifetime fan added at 40 is a lot less likely to get hooked than one added at 14. Someone who has experienced marching in some form is far more likely to have an interest in DCI than someone who never has. When I, or anyone else teaches, they stand in front of anywhere between 30 and 300 potential drum corps members and fans who already have an invested interest in the marching arts. It really doesn't make me cooler/better than you, that's not what I'm implying at all--I'm just a nerd with the job of teaching other nerds, who will probably happen to like DCI. This is also repetitive over generations: the more teachers we have that have marched, the more teachers we will have that have marched 20 years down the road, the more teachers we will have that have marched 40 years down the road, etc. etc. etc. ...I feel it's the best angle from which to pursue the activity in modern society.

In modern drum corps and modern society, the demands absolutely require that your current drum corps member have had significant experience in order to have any interest in participating. I myself came from a top-notch high school, studied horn under graduate TAs at the University of Michigan-Ann Arbor, and played for 8 years before I barely eked my way onto a top 12 brassline at 17. (Yeah, I was a little bit more of a pudge at that time, too, but my point still stands. ) Electronics are one piece of a large puzzle that is designed for DCI to be able to incorporate the successes which competitive marching bands have begun to experience in terms of growth and innovation for the last 5-10 years. Hopefully soon, we can see DCI reclaim the mantle of excellence in design innovation as well as performance in our activity (that is to say, marching music) which has, for a few years now, being been held by WGI and BOA. There are many potentials for the application of amplification that haven't been explored yet, and it's the tradition of DCI to try and seek out these effects in new and exciting ways. People weren't happy when we added the pit, either, but you don't see threads popping up like dandelions about it. One day, it will be the same for amplification and electronics. Already we have seen more than a few corps incorporate narration, the most loathed implementation of amplification, effectively--Bluecoats and Crown this last year immediately spring to mind. (I personally didn't care for how The Cadets did it. I thought it was decent at best, and awkward at worst.) I'm looking forward to what Kevin Ford, Bob Barfield, and Frank Sullivan, who are all part of the design team for Tarpon Springs HS, will do at Blue Stars in the next couple years; in fact, I'm excited to see what pretty much every design team can do with their new, expansive mediums. Something that gets lost in these discussions is often the appreciation that each individual is unique. On the forum, we're just one more anon behind a keyboard. Each individual has their own reasons to march DCI, but at bare minimum now, most individuals will have to spend several years intensely studying their instrument if they want to march a DCI World Class Finalist. Your average potential drum corps kid today is a veritable rock star in their HS band, has spent several years already marching, and will probably be looking at a future in music or marching somehow. To be honest, in the face of rapidly rising costs, the "top 12 is all that really matters" mentality, and the activity's own pressure on being the best you can be, drum corps has an obligation to give to their members something that they can take with them after the season is done; and given the demands placed on an individual member to become a part of a significant organization in this activity if they're going to be involved at all, being a part of that organization should include a state-of-the-art education in effect and instrumentation for the many who want to or will go on in the marching arts in some capacity. This is part of why we see kids trying out in gobs for their top-choice corps and not going for Open Class or Quarterfinalists. We could continue on playing G horns and marching symmetrical drill and wearing the same really now goofy/dated looking outfits we wore, but I have a feeling that wouldn't last that long. I believe that we need to evolve and adapt to the world changing around us and hope to continue to offer our activity for the betterment of our youth and our society. Here's the thing, though: someone involved in education in the marching arts is going to have a much larger pool of open ears, and someone who is 17 is just as, if not more able to have the same effect as you. Probably even larger, because they are close to the common vein of interest that brings kids to drum crops today. I believe that's probably a lot more valuable than someone who hasn't been actively involved as anything other than an audience member in the last however many years.

And yet, every year that those kids you know for sure stopped going, more freshmen will come and learn of the activity. I've marched a BOA Grand National Champion, and I'll tell you, they can barely get some kids to leave the program alone after they've graduated. Many that I know of have marched DCI, and even more will follow it and go to a couple shows (just about every show around Ann Arbor, MI, I'm lucky to have at least 1 person in the audience who I knew in HS). The HS I teach, which doesn't even COMPETE in BOA, this year turned out 3 kids who will be marching the same corps I march, and even more went to the DCI Quarterfinals in the theatre. I can't wait to see how many go to the Orlando show this year. Is this the case everywhere? Unfortunately, not yet. But it IS possible and it DOES happen, and it's a great thing to work towards more of it happening in more places.

"DOOM AND GLOOM!! RAWER!!"

DCP in a heartbeat.

Blue Stars' design staff is the same design staff at Tarpon Springs, who just finished giving a presentation on the possibilities of electronics and amplification... I fully expect Blue Stars to be in the vanguard of those implementing the new tools for 2009.

One of the best threads I've seen around here in a while. Seriously. I would love it if we could get past these instrumentation arguments and focus on maximizing the potential of what we've been given. Even without WW yet, electronics and amplification open up a whole lot of possibilities for a design staff willing to think outside the box, and I'm genuinely excited to see what they can do with it. Drum corps just keeps getting better and better in the two most important arenas: innovation and education.

Count me in as excited. The possibilities for sound and effect have increased exponentially with this decision. It's going to be crazy to see what DCI can do with this medium--I have a feeling that it's going to be some good stuff.

I mean the "old guard" sentiment with as much respect and admiration as possible, so that you know. I read a post here one day that I felt was a great sentiment about a certain drum corps--that they were 50% tradition and 50% innovation. I think this belief is reflected in almost every corps on the field these days to some extent. DCI has a long tradition of innovation, and each generation of the activity should be free to seek this out in its own right--whatever that may be. The other 50% of tradition are the same bus songs BAC still sings about your corps (yeah I know a thing or two about my history, thanks), the same tour that the kids go on every summer, and the outstanding education in music and in life they receive. Compared to that, whatever happens on the field seems utterly insignificant to me. I am more empathetic than you may think. However, I believe the direction of the activity to be far more beneficial to our future, maybe even survival as an activity, than I do the validity these sentiments. EDIT: Funny, I used the word "sentiment" three (now four) times. Oh well. It's late.

I'm getting ready for it to make sure I'm not "that guy".

Man, I just thought about how cool that could actually be. Can you imagine how sick of a jazz flautist BD could get? It'd be awesome.

Great post.

Not quite. They don't use all bell-front brass.

Believe it or not, bawker, "retirees" was me trying to turn it down a notch from the "geezers" I originally put in . Guess I'm still learning that whole self-editing thing. My point was mostly that I have class to go to, kids to teach, instruments to learn etc. etc. and DCP increasingly falls down my list of priorities because of the negative attitudes around here, and I can only imagine that that has happened to others over the course of time... I guess my answer to the back part of your post is that I'd do more "IRL". Give more money, time, etc. and try to get the ear of others through the power of my contributions...but at the same time, as I've said before, a kid could be playing any instrument or spinning any equipment for me and the activity would still mean to me 99% of what it had when I started. And believe me, I'm getting ready for the day when it will probably happen when I don't agree with the direction that drum corps is headed, and reminding myself to keep in my mind what's important: that 99%...sometimes it seems like that's asking an awful lot of people around here.

IMHO, it really stopped being drum corps when musicians stopped making appearances on battlefields.

Oh no, I don't have anything other than conjecture. Never claimed to, actually...but it's folly to assume that DCP is a reflection of DCI's niche market. The schism between the policies favored here and the policies that actually happen should point to that.

Don't take this the wrong way, but this is an excellent case in point. I've made on post, and already, three different posters of the "old guard" mentality have taken issue with it! How can I possibly try and keep up with this, and make a decent argument for my views, when the discussion immediately takes this kind of course? Why would I bother coming here to espouse my beliefs only to be shouted down by multiple people, and to (repeatedly) have my personal character called into question? I don't know how MikeD does it, honestly.

Well if someone as persistent (or stupid, take your pick) as me more often than not finds DCP to be exhaustive, I can only imagine how someone who had George Hopkins as a personal friend/mentor/director would feel. Kinda hard to poll people who have left DCP.

a-hem..."DCP suckitude." Case in point. I think DCP drives away the people who believe in furthering the activity in a certain direction. I don't have the time or energy to fight retirees with nothing better to do than argue about band over an online forum, and I doubt many others do, either. It's common knowledge that this is hardly fertile ground for those beliefs. In terms of the volunteers, parents, band kids that follow, etc. etc., who make up the bulk of the people involved in this activity, I really don't think this kind of thing makes that big of a difference...if anything, to them, I bet it's much more of a step in the right direction than your average "concerned FMM".

Don't worry, OP. I think >90% of the activity is with you and okay with the changes. You're just experiencing one of the main effects of what I like to call "DCP suckitude" .

Yay! I agree with Hrothgar! EDIT: Except, of course, my belief that DCI will flourish. If you want to start a DCA junior circuit, by all means...I have a feeling that we will maintain our status as the premiere circuit for the activity.

What, are you a DCI shareholder and entitled to those rights or something because you follow corps?

At the risk of giving out a little too much information about myself, I went to the Plymouth-Canton Educational Park, a premier BOA group, and I'd just like to respond to these "points". Re: Fans: Simply put, this isn't the case where I come from! Indeed, the alumni and family presence is hefty in the PCMB. Many of the staff were alumni when I marched, there would always be a significant contingent of alumni at the band's home show (the Great Lakes Invitational, or GLI), and it was a pretty common occurrence to get a speech from someone who marched in the program at some point or another. Families are a HUGE part of the marching band, and quite a few get hooked for life! The booster organization is one of the most remarkable volunteer operations you will ever see. Guidestar.com puts the band's annual operational expenses at about half that of World Class drum corps, and in many ways, they're financially better off than their drum corps counterparts (or at least in the black). My first year after graduating HS me and my family took the trip to BOA GN in Indianapolis--the past few years since, they've gone themselves! I live in FL now and it's not as feasible, but my father, mother and brother have all been to every GN since 2001, and I haven't marched since 2004. Interesting point: my family members, and several of the other band patrons, have on several occasions professed a preference for watching marching band to drum corps, primarily because the drum corps activity is too "dry" creatively. Re: Members: Well, this point is kinda silly. I mean, my MB was all-volunteer when I marched, and when I've taught only freshmen were required to participate in order to be in the concert program. There are always kids who don't want to be there that much when you're dealing with a large cross-section of society--I imagine that the lower-level, community drum corps of yesteryear probably had a similar level of enthusiasm and dedication to marching band programs today. Re: Sense of History: As I've stated, alumni were a huge presence. We knew about the band's history reaching back into the 70s. I today can still tell you that the band first went to BOA GN in 1986, made finals in 1987, won championships in 1990, 1991 (and got robbed at finals in 1992) and again in 1999. We had several different band camp and finals traditions which have been upheld for generations. Really, what was the purpose of this thread? "Band sucks!"? Your points don't even have that much validity to them.

craiga, please don't get me wrong on this; I normally enjoy your posts immensely and am so glad that the Crusaders have someone to give them the fair shake on this board. I have a lot of respect for the corps and the reception they get around here is sometimes disheartening. However, speaking as someone who knows a few members of the current corps and operates in the world of Florida marching, the corps membership really is upwards of two-thirds Floridian by residence (people are always moving in and out of here, however). Don't get me wrong; the Crusaders do it in FL better than anyone has in years! We're lucky to have them around down here. I don't think it's disingenuous for them to call themselves the Boston Crusaders, either. The corps still carries with it the same philosophies, traditions, and history as they ever had. No matter where the kids come from in that corps, they are true blue Crusaders, wrought in the same tradition and historic hometown as those who came before them...it's more than just a little trivial to quibble about it .