CowboyKen Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 All of which is saying that Bloo made some better decisions early on and was able to capitalize on those good decisions. Considering that's a big part of how the game is played, it means that they beat Scouts the right way. No need for rationalization (fwiw, it comes off a little on the "sour grapes" side). You are absolutely right - Madison couldn't get it right - they are the ones who blew it - Bloo got it right and they won. And the second point is yes, it is all a game. To the previous poster Byline - please don't be so naive as to think that judges don't have a tendency to "slot" corps!!! Believe me - I know the judging system!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcn8 Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 (edited) the Corps staffs ahead of them ( Cavs, Cadets, BD ) just know how to get more points out of their show, the marching members, and more importantly, the judges. It's no more complicated than that and they've done it for decades. It's a very elite group indeed the top 4, and the same Corps simply swap spots in this top 4 every year. They have what it takes in money, reputation, skill, that Corps outside this group almost always hit a ceiling before falling back, or more oftentimes than not, simply ceasing to exist in a few years. For Corps like Crown, Bluecoats, these are the good years..... just enjoy them while they last. We the fans are. I completely agree with these comments. The "elite" corps have all of the resources required to sustain a place in the top positions each year. The facts substantiate that it's not only tough for other corps to break into the top positions, it's even more difficult for them to sustain the higher placements. Look at all of the corps that have jumped into the top six in the last couple of decades (Crossmen, Boston Crusaders, Glassmen, Blue Knights) and what has happened to each in the subsequent years -- within a year or two these corps dropped back out of the top six and, in some instances, even out of the top twelve. Star is the only modern day exception to this rule and one could argue with its financial backing, it had a business model that was very different than most corps and, therefore, was better positioned to break the model. Bluecoats accomplishment last year was impressive and I hope they can sustain the momentum... I'd equally like to see Crown continue to challenge the top corps... but history tells us the odds are stacked against them. OK, so you're predicting that CCrown and Bluecoats are going to "cease to exist" in a few years .... "enjoy them while they last"???WOW -- that's, um, kind of rude. These are two corps who have seemingly done things "the right way" by building and building and building to get to where they are. They have put down a "foundation" that brought them here, not "smoke and mirrors." I don't see either of them going ANYWHERE anytime soon ... sure, maybe (MAYBE!!) one or both might slip competitively in a single season here or there, but with what they've built, I doubt that too. Some people simply ENJOY bringing others down, don't they??? I think (actually I hope) you are missing X DM's point. The way I read it, X DM is telling everyone to enjoy "the good years" while they last and not to enjoy "the corps" while they last. Edited July 15, 2007 by jcn8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBadMadMan Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 Totally. Not because they were out-performed or anything. The Scouts couldn't make a decision, so they actually called Bluecoats up on finals day in 05. It was a really nice conversation. *ring* *ring* *ring* "Hello?" "Hey Bluecoats. It' the Scouts. How's it going?" "Oh hey, Scouts! Great to hear from you. It's going pretty well. We were hoping to beat you guys, but I guess it'll never happen this year." "Aww... don't be so hard on yourself there, Bluecoats. It's ok. That's actually what I called to talk to you about." *sniff* "Oh... oh yeah?" "Yeah... We cant really decide on our ending this year, so we wanted to call and concede 5th place to you guys." "Really??? Oh man, thank you so much! We really appreciate it!" "No problem, it's the least we could do. Have a good time tonight, Bluecoats." "Oh thanks, Scouts! You too!" *click* Sorry, but having been on DCP for Lord knows how many years now, that might be the first post ever that's genuinely offended me. We worked our a**** off that summer and PEAKED finals night. That Saturday performance made our Thursday and Friday nights beforehand look like a giant bag of ****, but apparently we only took them by nearly two points after being behind them all season because the judges looked at their watches Finals night and said "Uh oh, Madison's out of time. They didn't decide on their ending tonight, therefore Bluecoats will win." Jesus H. Christ. I'm gonna get off of my soapbox now and go play some Guitar Hero. :P But seriously, do you see the (lack of) logic behind that original statement? I usually don't go off like this, but you make it seem like my entire ageout season's outcome was just handed to me rather than having earned it. Well, in that case, let me fill you in on a few things (not that this is necessarily the place to do it)... 1. It took until finals night for it to happen. Not ONCE did you beat them prior. 2. Scoring recaps show why it happened...Gary Czapinski (sp?) suddenly placed the guard in 14th place when they had consistently scored around 8th-10th all season. Heck, even if the guard had finished in the top 12 then Bluecoats wouldn't have beaten the Scouts by the scores. This isn't anything unusual though since Mr. Czapinski has a track record of doing the exact same thing. 3. I won't even get into the classless way the staff acted after the scores were announced...popping streamers over the Scouts staff and corps proper and such.... Seriously...anyone with any level of intelligence saw this one coming after quarters...don't get your panties all bunched up over nothing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeHester Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 (edited) 1. It took until finals night for it to happen. Not ONCE did you beat them prior. You could say that about a LOT of corps/shows from almost any year. Finals week is a HUGE turning point for everyone. 1995 and 1996 are good years for reference... as well as almost every year until now. 2. Scoring recaps show why it happened...Gary Czapinski (sp?) suddenly placed the guard in 14th place when they had consistently scored around 8th-10th all season. Heck, even if the guard had finished in the top 12 then Bluecoats wouldn't have beaten the Scouts by the scores. This isn't anything unusual though since Mr. Czapinski has a track record of doing the exact same thing. Wait... so, are you talking about 2005 finals? semis? where are you getting 14th in guard from? Gary judged vis ens at finals in 2005 and placed the scouts 6th (which I thought was a bit low in my opinion). But I don't understand what you are arguing/stating with the slight conspiracy theory about a caption being dumped to knock them down a place, or whatever it is meant to imply. I will say this... I watched all 3 performances that week and the Bluecoats seriously did not have a good quarter finals show... I'm sorry you guys... you didn't. (and I worked with you so I can say that with a bit more confidence than some... plus I'm sure you know that). And when they went on for finals, I thought there was a bit of dirt, but the energy was absolutely incredible!! The performance was just amazing, I thought. I haven't seen as much drum corps as some out there, but the Bluecoats definitely jumped about 10 notches between Thursday and Saturday night that week... that's a fact. This might be my opinion, but I seriously doubt that a judge knocking down numbers for another corps had anything to do with the Bluecoats ending up where they did in finals. Bluecoats had one heck of a finals performance and that's really all it takes. Anything can happen on any given night. Bluecoats had their best show of the season on finals night. Edited July 15, 2007 by GeorgeHester Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBadMadMan Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 This isn't the intended topic of discussion...so I will do my best to find recaps and move this convo into PM. If you have recaps, PM them to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeHester Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 (edited) This isn't the intended topic of discussion...so I will do my best to find recaps and move this convo into PM. If you have recaps, PM them to me. I didn't mean to take it "off topic" - I thought my response was very on the topic... anything can happen during the season and finals night is just when it's most important. slump or no slump, as this "topic" states, it's not finals week yet! 2005: http://www.fromthepressbox.com/2005seasonscores.htm Edited July 15, 2007 by GeorgeHester Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBadMadMan Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 (edited) I didn't mean to take it "off topic" - I thought my response was very on the topic... anything can happen during the season and finals night is just when it's most important. slump or no slump, as this "topic" states, it's not finals week yet! 2005: http://www.fromthepressbox.com/2005seasonscores.htm I apologize for that mistake...it was the night prior that set up the tie. A 12th place finish in guard. And it wasn't Gary C (I mistook him considering he WAS the finals night judge). Which is quite surprising considering his track record. What seemed odd was how there was this huge jump all of a sudden finals night to almost 2 points. I'll concede that the Scouts didn't put their best show on the field finals night, but it was otherwise entirely ridiculous. Edited July 15, 2007 by BigBadMadMan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctrain08 Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 Here's my take on all this... I know there are people out there that pay much more attention to this stuff than I do and who analyze it to death, but at the end of the day your opinion as to why a corps placed the way they did at finals doesn't matter. If the Bluecoats got 5th place in '05, then they deserved it. End of discussion. All that matters is what happens on finals night. This time of the summer is always unpredictable because many corps have tons of changes going on in their shows. ONLY THE BLUECOATS know for sure what is going on right now with their show and I guarantee you they're not worried about placement. Plus, I'd rather see them in a slump NOW than in August. For now everyone just needs to chill out and let the time take care of things. The Bluecoats will get what they deserve on finals night, and I guarantee you they're not going to let this get in their way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UP_Front1201 Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 Still love the show though :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maestro1 Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 BLOOOOOO has plenty in store for the rest of their season, so "Chilax" about where they are headed. Their staff is amazing and focused. Expect much cleaning and some added features by San Antonio. They know what they're doing. They have one of the best shows out there with great ideas to sell it even more as time progresses. By the way, if you are counting crowd appeal, and actual clapping throughout the show, there's only three corps out there getting the crowd whipped up...Crown, Bluecoats, and Cavaliers! Listen for it! Chilax! GO BLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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