euponitone Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 This is what I worry about, people taking this as fact. I do research for a living, and perform the kind of "coding" the OP did in conducting his/her analysis all the time. What may seem completely objective is often very subjective, so I'd find all of this much more believable if 1 or 2 other people gave this kind of analysis a try for the same corps. Nothing against the OP, it's just how this kind of stuff goes.eric Well....good luck finding someone willing to do that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecamburn Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 Well....good luck finding someone willing to do that... Yeah, I know. But otherwise you're simply taking one person's word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted July 16, 2007 Author Share Posted July 16, 2007 This is what I worry about, people taking this as fact. I do research for a living, and perform the kind of "coding" the OP did in conducting his/her analysis all the time. What may seem completely objective is often very subjective, so I'd find all of this much more believable if 1 or 2 other people gave this kind of analysis a try for the same corps. Nothing against the OP, it's just how this kind of stuff goes.eric I have clearly indicated the times in the show with corresponding notations of my assessment of what is going on. I welcome any feedback for anyone who sees it differently. As my laptop set up was feeding my TV, I simply ran through my DVR and recorded the webcast. By using a counter, the pause button, and a word doc, I was able to get these stats in about 30 minutes when I watched the recordings today. We may have to wait for the Encorps to be released next week to have someone else substantiate the data, which I would welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prodigal bari Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 I have to ask this....In seeing this type of indepth analysis of drill demand and integration, I wonder if there are judges who, throught the season, actually take the time to break down the corps' shows and do analysis such as this? Part of the early season competitive process (and the integral critique culture) is to educate judges on th show content and intent and to get feedback (going both ways) concerning the various corps' shows. Since the DCI-level judges will see the corps on multiple basis it would seem logical (and even ethical given the feedback culture) to break down and analyze the shows as a part of the preparation to readjudicate the corps (and indeed, to save ones' hide during on-field judging! )and properly place them. (This serves another question...do judges research the corps; and is it ethical? Food for thought...) I did not march in this modern era (I was a product of the late-70's/early 80's)-yet it was not unknown to mask difficulty and to set D of D scores, then water demand. That is similar to some techniques and design processes being discussed here. I have noticed some of the things talked about on this thread; and have noticed a couple of times when the season would start to catch up to 'clever design' processes...when there has been enough time for the judging process to unlock the secrets of each show. (It explains corps who start out strong, then fade inexplicably...as well as corps who start out struggling; then come on like gangbusters coming into Worlds.) There is nothing wrong with maximizing strengths while shoring up weaknesses...it has been done since the infancy of the marching activity...but with the repeated viewing of the performances these factors become more obvious. Let's not slam these techniques, however. They show the best and smartest in design. That is the game here...to put your best foot forward. :) PS...I have noticed the trend of the hater/name-calling/debate slamming techniques being used from time to time in this thread. Let's give each other room to debate without the ad-hominum attacks. This is a fresh topic which begs to be extrapolated to the max. ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euponitone Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 PS...I have noticed the trend of the hater/name-calling/debate slamming techniques being used from time to time in this thread. Let's give each other room to debate without the ad-hominum attacks. This is a fresh topic which begs to be extrapolated to the max. ) Lol...you should've seen the PM i got :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prodigal bari Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 Truman...great work. I actually did the same thing out of curiosity last year with Machine...and noted the same trends you have pointed out. (I do not have the research with me; but trust me that I noted the same info..with a bit of amazement!) I wonder if last year the judges started to figure that out toward the end of the season; and if they are noticing this characteristic in this year's show...and earlier? (Note the late surge by Phantom last year...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted July 16, 2007 Author Share Posted July 16, 2007 What's funny is that this guy says that he's tired of the music scores yet The Cavaliers crushed the other corps in GE and Visual but dropped 5 places in music.Considering how much they play standing still, you'd think they would blow the others away... #1 in GE VISUAL Rep, even though they don't play much while marching this demanding show. #2 in Music GE Rep, even thought they only play less than one minute of the brass music on the move. #2 in Brass Tech despite the things mentioned above. Maybe I'm mistaken, but I thought these three captions were all demand related. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancerlady Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 Has anybody timed the Cadets narration to see how much the horn line plays..etc..etc...yada yada yah! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nice Guy Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 (edited) Nice Guy,Couldn't seem to "quote reply" to your post a page back, so here's my reply. I do appreciate your intelligent addition to this discussion. My analysis was narrow. I just wanted to see exactly how much playing while moving the corps was doing. That is all I was charting. It seemed to me to be considerably less than other corps, and even more noticable to me than in previous years. My vision, however, was much broader. I did not fail to see the demand in the visual show as I was watching. I also did not fail to hear the difficulty in the music being played. The design did, however, seem to go out of the way to find ways to play difficult spots at a standstill, rather than find a way to play on the move. Nothing of any difficulty being played while moving for more than 10 seconds. Not something I remember noticing in any other top 8 show last night. I also don't believe that the mellos are merely playing half note chords as they sprint around the arc to the front sideline toward the end of Firebird, but I bow to the knowledge of an alum. I know it takes alot more than jazz running mello runs to create the needed effect. That does not change the fact that it is VERY difficult to do, and should in my opinion, be rewarded somehow. Truman, Thanks for the first sentence. However, I get the feeling that the rest of your reply is sarcastic ^0^ Is this little section in the Phantom show what you based this whole post on? I have seen Phantom's show and the section that you are talking about is not what you think. They are not "sprinting" as you put it. They are moving pretty fast...about 184bpm and the step size is at about a 6 to 5 at the largest (on the brink of jazz running). Musically, they are doing two bar phrases that have sixteenth note runs on beats 4 and 2, with a measure of rest between each phrase....At least that's what I hear. And, they are only doing this for 28 counts, which means that they are only playing for half of the time. Meanwhile, the rest of the corps is playing half notes to a half time feel (watch drum major and corps members feet) until they get to their trademark dotted half with sixteenth note pickup on beat 4 to sequence out the show. Meanwhile, your coveted mellos are holding on to a pedal tone from hell to the end. Musically, this is very cool, but does not support your post. Your post was very narrow. In fact, so narrow that I could shove it up a nats ### :sshh: If you did take musical difficulty and visual design into account when writing the post, then you would have added that to your analysis, but you didn't. You were only concerned with playing and moving. If a corps were to move like you want them to for the whole show, then music would suffer, and it would be boring. If a corps marched an 8 to 5 for the whole show, that would be boring and their visual socres would plummit. You have to balance both. Now, you design a show and when it makes top 12 I will look at your analysis more seriously. Do you think you know more than the designers for Blue Devils, Cadets, Cavaliers, Phantom Regiment, Carolina Crown, Bluecoats, Santa Clara Vanguard, etc........??..........UH! Nope. Edited July 16, 2007 by Nice Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nagging Cough! Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 Nice Guy stopped just short of asking truman to talk to the hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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