A Word From the OTHER Competition...

[Tom Brace]

Dave Eddelman is Director of Div. II/III. He's an outstanding person and works hard for the kid's.

Yes, he does exactly what DCI allows him to do for these corps. He gets them performance opportunities at almost no pay.

[kusankusho]

I disagree with you completely! I watched several shows this year (including Div 1) and the one that sold this "core (corps) drum corps fan" was VELVET KNIGHTS! With a close follow up BDB (very cool show too). These smaller corps do have entertainment value, but you can keep telling people they don't and you'll continue turning fans away from some good drum corps. Good job.

Read this guys past posts on Div 2/3. he seems to have some stick up his butt about anything not on the exaulted heigts of Div 1 and spares no opportunity to tear down on the smaller guys. If he was ever involved with div 2/3 he learned nothing of value.

Edited August 8, 2007 by kusankusho

[Tom Brace]

I'm gonna have to disagree with Mr. Tom Brace here.

I consider myself a serious drum corps fan, yet I LOVE div. II/III.

Hell, I'd almost rather go to a Div. II/III show, because the atmosphere is more relaxed and intimate.

In conclusion, I'd like to ask Mr. Tom Brace to stop making generalized statements that do not represent the truth.

You're right. I'm totally wrong. I'm sorry. Everything in II/III is all roses and sunshine. Enjoy the view.

And next time you run into a director of a Div. II or III corps ask them if they are making $6000 a show just to be there.

[ImpulseDrew]

Ryan...you were wrong about Madison. It was a very good show as well.

Also...this is a dead horse. As it was in Madison and for several years before that.

If you want to perform to an empty stadium on Finals week...join II/III should be the motto.

Thanks for the enthusiasm and the attempt to get the word out.

I'm done championing II/III. They have done NOTHING to elevate their standing in this activity. They do not promote themselves well and they do not connect with the core (corps) drum corps fan. Those are just the facts.

Sorry I'm being a little rain cloud today...but II/III needs to wake up and decide what they are to become. It's most likely too late. Expect announcements from Jersey and possibly Spartans about a move up next year. Where does that leave Div. II?

It's time for a more radical approach...it has nothing to do with the on the field products which are generally better than they have ever been.

It's not about the members...that's been too much the focus for too many years. It shouldn't be about the members and their development. It should be about finding and drawing an audience. And what's apparent is that audience IS NOT Div. I fans. They don't make the effort and will not make the effort. I'm sure the beaches were packed yesterday with fans going Thursday, Friday and Saturday night. How many fans were in attendance at Pasadena Community College? And to think...someone actually posted their worries that the stadium would be too small.

So, thanks for your efforts on behalf of DCIs dying circuit. It's on life support now and hospice has been called. I am already looking for a cemetary plot.

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Thanks for the ALL CAPS blah blah blah in denial blah blah blah.

Mark...be angry...that's good. Take it out on me...that's terrific. I never said anything that isn't true. Enough of this slathering buttercreme all over II/III and trying to make the problems go away.

The shows are so much better than they have been in the past. Here's the problem and it's not DCIs fault. They are taking very good care of their MEMBER CORPS since we like the CAPS LOCK key today.

Div. II/III has ZERO leadership. NO executive director. NO ONE looking out for the well being of those corps.

No one is going to see II/III comparatively because II/III has allowed us not to really care about you in any great degree.

You've built the II/III activity to benefit the kids and not the audience. Who goes to AYSO matches? Parents. Because it's about the kids. Same is true with II/III. The hard and true Div. I drum corps fan doesn't sober up on a Saturday morning to go watch Impulse....they hit the beach.

Sorry for the dose of realism. Hard to swallow when you are blaming everyone else for YOUR problems.

Wow, yay for hot topics. Well, here goes nothing.

Honestly, you are not a true Drum Corps fan. You're the kind of guy who only attends the closest shows, and misses the entire first half so you can go watch some kids you wish you could be stretch and warm up in the lot. You haven't seen a Div. II/III show since before you marched with the crack of dawn apple-eaters. Let's not kid ourselves, our biggest problem isn't a lack of advertising(which really is dci dropping the ball), it's people like you who sit around in a loungechair eating cheetos debating with yourself over which one was a better captain, picard or kirk when you could be watching the Div.II/III show in the next town over. "It's not the same!" bull-puckey! Go watch, then decide for yourself. At least I can say that when I go to a show, I watch it all. Instead of going off what someone else said, or posted, I go form my own opinion. JUST GO!!! You will not be disappointed (If you do happen to be Tom Brace, I will refund your ticket money, and buy you a beer. Promise). As far as what else is holding us back I only have one thing to say.... How about bringing back the format that was in place up until 2003. Div. II/III prelims, semis and finals, then the top 3 moved on to Div. I quarters. That would be great exposure, an awesome crowd, and something to aim for as a member. What's wrong Tom? don't like that either? afraid Spartans will knock one of your corps out of finals? oh, no wait.... you haven't seen them.

--Drew

Impulse 01-05

[rosski47]

You're right. I'm totally wrong. I'm sorry. Everything in II/III is all roses and sunshine. Enjoy the view.

And next time you run into a director of a Div. II or III corps ask them if they are making $6000 a show just to be there.

That's not what I was talking about.

I was talking about your statements that said that no serious drum corps fan would want to go to a Div. II/III show.

I personally know several, and I'm sure there is a good portion of this forum that enjoys going to Div II/III shows.

[Mistress Kelli]

The current system is not broke if you are a Div. I corps. It's broken for II/III and these remaining corps have been part of the problem.

ATTENTION DIV II/III CORPS: Go Div 1 or fold... so says Tom Brace.

[Mistress Kelli]

p.s. I heart VK!

[Tom Brace]

Wow, yay for hot topics. Well, here goes nothing.

Honestly, you are not a true Drum Corps fan. You're the kind of guy who only attends the closest shows, and misses the entire first half so you can go watch some kids you wish you could be stretch and warm up in the lot. You haven't seen a Div. II/III show since before you marched with the crack of dawn apple-eaters. Let's not kid ourselves, our biggest problem isn't a lack of advertising(which really is dci dropping the ball), it's people like you who sit around in a loungechair eating cheetos debating with yourself over which one was a better captain, picard or kirk when you could be watching the Div.II/III show in the next town over. "It's not the same!" bull-puckey! Go watch, then decide for yourself. At least I can say that when I go to a show, I watch it all. Instead of going off what someone else said, or posted, I go form my own opinion. JUST GO!!! You will not be disappointed (If you do happen to be Tom Brace, I will refund your ticket money, and buy you a beer. Promise). As far as what else is holding us back I only have one thing to say.... How about bringing back the format that was in place up until 2003. Div. II/III prelims, semis and finals, then the top 3 moved on to Div. I quarters. That would be great exposure, an awesome crowd, and something to aim for as a member. What's wrong Tom? don't like that either? afraid Spartans will knock one of your corps out of finals? oh, no wait.... you haven't seen them.

--Drew

Impulse 01-05

You couldn't be more wrong my friend. And I did see Impulse once this season in Glendale. I don't miss corps on purpose because for me what happens in a parking lot has little bearing on my enjoyment of drum corps.

I speak from many years of experience rooted in regional circuits where there were opportunities for small corps and big corps alike to make a "reasonable" sum to offset touring expenses in order to survive.

Please don't attempt to lecure me on what is and what is not involved in II/III because I've been there. Looks like Spartans may just have a job knocking off Surf this year instead of what my favorite corps might be. I liked Memphis Sound last year at finals as well as Impulse who won Div. III. What were your thoughts on their performances from last year. Afterall, if you were in Madison last year weren't you?

So...this thread begins in the Div. I forum advertising a Div. II/III corps show. I have spoken back and forth with Ryan Turner hundreds of times on DCP and RAMD before that. He is VERY passionate about Div. II/III and Impulse.

What I'm saying is that this thing...it's really hard to describe other than DCIs equivilent to AYSO soccer...is not attended by a vast majority of the PAYING AUDIENCE. I did not make this fact up. It's a fact. So if getting mad at me is going to fix this and make it all better...come on...heap it on me...I can take it...I have big shoulders.

If we are going to logically debate the relevance of Div. II/III on the current future of DCI...you lose already. Because no one currently in Div. II/III has an answer of how to fix the fact that too few people come and see these corps perform.

And here's one more message you're not going to like. It's my assessment that DCI does not care either. Otherwise II/III international prelims/semis/finals would be in Indianapolis. Have a nice time in Michigan City.

20% of Div. II/III ever march in Div. I. Translate this. 80% of all Div. I participants NEVER march in a Div. II/III corps before auditioning for a Div. I corps. Now...explain to me...if the audience doesn't attend...and you only have a one in four chance of making a Div. I corps by marching in Div. II/III....where's the relevance?

OK...time for you to rant at me for being evil and lazy and not telling the truth.

Waiting.

[Guard Diva]

And you're welcome for the enthusiasm. That's sort of my middle name.

Right after the H.

Your middle name is Henthusiasm? :P

[Tom Brace]

ATTENTION DIV II/III CORPS: Go Div 1 or fold... so says Tom Brace.

I couldn't agree more.

What is it when an audience doesn't want to attend and you only have a 1 in 4 chance of marching in "Music's Major League" if you march in a II/III corps.

I call it irrelevance.

Watch Jersey Surf and Spartans after this year. I won't be surprised.