kalijah Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 Its not always about air speed either, air mass plays a big part. Air mass? Or do you mean air "flow"? And dont forget air "pressure"! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randomnoise Posted August 14, 2007 Share Posted August 14, 2007 Don't get Darryl started, for the love of god!! Just kidding (there is an interesting thread on the Brass forum that Darryl has been holdiong forth in) Anyway, we have run into problems like this from time to time, as we have quite the menagerie of Contrabasses in our inventory. Lot's of good suggestions here. Pitch bending is very useful, as is tuning the horn for the player and helping them to adjust until they are able to center and play in tune (BD pioneered this in 1979). Earliuer this year, we traded horns between a sharp person and a flat person - problem solved (for the short term). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Braun452 Posted August 14, 2007 Share Posted August 14, 2007 Air mass?Or do you mean air "flow"? And dont forget air "pressure"! Also, any advice regarding "air" "air support" "fill-up the horn" etc. is not helpful. And most certainly not the problem.Yes, it does take increasing air pressure AND flow to play louder. But as a player becomes more efficient in creating tone he/she will also require relatively less air flow and pressure. Tuning is an embouchure and tone quality issue. Air pressure/flow/ support/ (whatever you wish to call it), is related to volume of sound, that diminishing with efficiency. Encouraging one to use "more air" when the embouchure is the problem will never accomplish good habits. I can only speak for myself and what has worked for me; then transulate that to the kids I tech and agree with you. I would argue one point and that is "Tuning is an embouchure and tone quality issue." If this is a continuing problem with an individual, then yes, the problem is extending beyond just air management. However, if this is not a common problem and rather something that pops up in the middle of tuning before a performance, then I am willing to bet if the individual just takes a full, seamless breath and a confident attack, without changing his/her embouchure, the pitch will center itself or come closer then the previous attack. I would say that I teach the importance of taking a full warm breath regardless of the level of sound the player will be releasing; to treat each dynamic with the same breath and attention during the inital attack and throughout the phrase. When I was referancing "Air Mass", I was refering to the actual amount of air intake; at a static state. (This is the point where I take it to a scientific level and ultimately kill the conversation) Air flow would be measured while the air is moving from the lungs through the instrument, and obviously air pressure is self explanatory. I like to break this down for any students to help them understand that even though the movement of air needs to be seemless, there are check points such as the ones listed above. Obviously, this will not address an embouchure problem. Okay- Now I am raising the :OT: flag, and its my fault. Thoughts... comments, educational advice? Anything I can use to improve my quality as an educator is welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalijah Posted August 14, 2007 Share Posted August 14, 2007 and obviously air pressure is self explanatory. Not really. Most brass types avoid the term at all costs. And substitute other terms in its place: "air speed", "air support", "the blow" etc. Some even deny it's neccessity. (See the brass forum) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martybucs Posted August 14, 2007 Share Posted August 14, 2007 Air mass? Isn't that what Catholics do, at home on Sundays, if they don't go to church? Oh, sorry, you guys were being serious. :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tapper7 Posted August 14, 2007 Share Posted August 14, 2007 (edited) wrong embouchure - not centered. - use bending studies to calibrate centering. you will find that many horn players can bend middle 'C' WAY down ... but cannot bend UP. (I found out I had this problem when I was 16 yrs old in VK) If u can bend up AND down - u r centered. $1 to Jack Meehan. Edited August 14, 2007 by Tapper7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-horns Posted August 14, 2007 Share Posted August 14, 2007 Don't get Darryl started, for the love of god!! Funny, Chris, I was thinking the same thing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoothy Posted August 14, 2007 Share Posted August 14, 2007 We've had experiences where the player is hearing the note out of tune and thus plays (lips) the note sharp or flat. I have someone with good pitch play the tuning note and then return to tuning the original player. I don't read all this stuff, so I am not sure if anyone has addressed the weather. When it's hot, the slides needed to be yanked so far out that the mellophones would constantly lose their slides in rehearsal. I used to go to critique with my soprano to show the judges how sharp the horn was. It was as if the old bugles were designed to be played at room temperature, not a steaming hot football field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CallipygianKing Posted August 15, 2007 Share Posted August 15, 2007 Or find some factory-tuned horn players! :P Excuse me, but could someone be so kind as to yank on my tuning slide a bit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannyboy Posted August 15, 2007 Share Posted August 15, 2007 Go back to G horns??? :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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