Why did The Cadets taunt the audience?

[Bluzes]

I thought it was "let's try something without voice".

I think that was the best crowd reaction the got during their show at finals.

It made sense to take it out on Friday since Thursday it was the loudest appluse they got, I made note of this on Friday and really thought it was done for the KIDS but putting it back in on Saturday was not it the best interest of the KIDS that George like to use as his excuse for anything he does. On Thursday the Cadets did not march back to their buses till after BD so I had the chance to appluse the KIDS as they marched by but I totally understand the booing.

As far as the DVD's and CD's are concerned the buzzing lights already ruined them. You can really hear the buzz on EnCorps so unless they play around with an audio program like Sony Sound Forge to get it out they will be flawed forever. Wonder if ESPN2 is going to be flawed. What a shame DCI had a chance to really shine in the artsy LA area and the buzzing ruined all that. In the program book there is a picture of the DCI staff checking out the Rose Bowl so how did they miss that, heads should roll at DCI for that blunder.

[drumcat]

It made sense to take it out on Friday since Thursday it was the loudest appluse they got, I made note of this on Friday and really thought it was done for the KIDS but putting it back in on Saturday was not it the best interest of the KIDS that George like to use as his excuse for anything he does. On Thursday the Cadets did not march back to their buses till after BD so I had the chance to appluse the KIDS as they marched by but I totally understand the booing.

As far as the DVD's and CD's are concerned the buzzing lights already ruined them. You can really hear the buzz on EnCorps so unless they play around with an audio program like Sony Sound Forge to get it out they will be flawed forever. Wonder if ESPN2 is going to be flawed. What a shame DCI had a chance to really shine in the artsy LA area and the buzzing ruined all that. In the program book there is a picture of the DCI staff checking out the Rose Bowl so how did they miss that, heads should roll at DCI for that blunder.

A few things... heads should not roll. Let's just say that they had heard the buzz... where else would you have put finals? The Coliseum? Pffft.

The point about Sound Forge, etc. I know the audio guys are working on that. I can also tell you that the buzz is going to be extremely hard to remove given its frequency distribution. This isn't just a 60 Hz hum... it's all over.

Frankly, I'm glad that someone offered a different perspective about all of this. I'm personally satisfied with the answer to the original question.

[drumcat]

Okay, here's my take on the whole deal. I'm not going to address the pluses or minuses of narration, that's been discussed enough already (some of it by me) and don't think that merits additional discussion. What I will address is the title of this thread, and let me start by stating, in my opinion, that, categorically:

The Cadets were not taunting the audience, either by pulling the corps off the field or with the "Lets do this next part with no voice" section. Any assertions to the contrary are pure crap.

If you saw George Hopkins that Thursday night, you would know by the way he looked that he was basically in the heat of battle ... He looked like crap, and appeared not to have gotten a lot of sleep. This was crunch time for him and he was showing the effects (I saw him as he was leaving the stadium and he was totally drained and looked like he'd just run a marathon.)

That said, I believe that he pulled the corps off the field solely over concern for the safety of the kids and their ability to properly execute the show. Period, end of case. When you are that caught up in the throws of production (whether it be Theatre, Drum Corps, TV or Sports), you tend to get tunnel vision during crunch time and only see what is the next obstacle to overcome to get you from point A to point B.

George saw the field was in bad shape, was thinking entirely in terms of getting the show done to the best of the Cadets' abilities and made a decision. He's the Director, that's what he does; He makes decisions. You don't have to agree with them, but you do have to accept them as his perogative.

Was it a good decision? Well, it may not have been the most astute decision for the moment given the crowd dynamic, but I don't think that those factors were even an afterthought for George at the time.

There were obviously a lot of folks in the crowd that had paid good coin to be there, a number of whom were very frustrated with the Cadets' show and their inability to feed that back to the corps, or the feeling that their feedback on DCP and other sources (which I really doubt that Cadets' staff have the time to pay a lot of attention to while on the road) wasn't being responded to in terms of show changes. So when George pulled the corps off the field, the level of frustration in the stands hit critical mass and bedlam ensued.

Again, none of this probably registered with George in making his decision, and I don't think Hopkins' intent was to do anything but have his corps compete with their show under the pre-agreed field conditions and to the best of their abilities.

I spoke to a couple of guys from the Cadets percussion staff after the show. They were almost despondent about the incident and couldn't understand how the crowd could treat the kids so poorly. They were taking it very personally, and mainly with respect to the effect of the crowd reaction on the kids. They were also disheartened by the penalty (which was soon to be reversed.)

There was not a lot we could say to them at the time ... Again, these guys were in the heat of battle after a summer of war. This gets to what can seem like a life-and-death struggle when you're in the thick of it. It was not a time to confuse them with logic and try to explain the situation from the other side (not mitigating what some of the folks in the crowd were doing, as it was well beyond the point of just booing in some cases) ... It was a time to console them, let them lick their wounds, and go back to get ready for round two.

I did ask them about the "lets do this ... no talking" (or whatever the verbage was) thing, and if it was new, because it was a brilliant way to get a big win with the crowd. They had apparently put it in at Stanford. Talking about it was about the only thing that got a smile out of 'em, and we all agreed it was a great concession to some of the folks who had been complaining all season about the narration being over-the-top. Why they pulled it Friday night, I don't know. What I do know is that I was very happy that it was back in for Finals and the crowd, who were more-or-less won over to the Cadets' side after their brilliant semi's performance, responded to the statement with thunderous applause. It was the best (programming-related) public relations move the Cadets made all weekend.

So that's my take on it? No intended contempt was being directed at anyone, particularly the crowd, no conspiracy theories, no BS ... The whole situation was pretty innocent when taken in light of what the players involved were dealing with that night. Some times you've got to look at things from the other side ... The pressure of competition is pretty intense, not only for the kids in the corps, but all the folks around them, from the corps director on down to the folks in the souvie booth. In the end, all anyone associated with a corps wants is for their kids to get the best shot at doing what they do ... I believe that's what Hopkins was doing when he pulled the corps off the field on Thursday night.

Most of this was off topic, but I appreciate the thoughts about Friday.

[DCIHasBeen]

Most of this was off topic, but I appreciate the thoughts about Friday.

Thanks. Although the thread title seemed to invite a discussion of the whole Thursday night debacle (or Hashgate, as some are calling it), so I didn't feel that it was straying too much from the point.

[skevinp]

I really enjoyed that we made fun of ourselves with the "no voice" quote though!

Too bad one Cadets fan didn't realize you were joking. He turned around and flipped off the whole audience for having the audacity to laugh during the show. Looked like he was about to punch somebody.

I thought it was funny, though, and the show needed that little release.

[Bluzes]

A few things... heads should not roll. Let's just say that they had heard the buzz... where else would you have put finals? The Coliseum? Pffft.

The point about Sound Forge, etc. I know the audio guys are working on that. I can also tell you that the buzz is going to be extremely hard to remove given its frequency distribution. This isn't just a 60 Hz hum... it's all over.

Frankly, I'm glad that someone offered a different perspective about all of this. I'm personally satisfied with the answer to the original question.

No heads should not roll at DCI for ruining finals week?? They trashed DCI on some of the most exciting Drum Corps we had in years. Not only was there the buzzing the field is patched all different colors of green and it looks horrible on EnCorps. The DVDs and CDs are worthless and ESPN2 is going to look and sound like crap. The Cadets antics on Thursday had BD cutoff in theaters out east; instead let’s give them all a raise because that is going to happen anyway.

On Thursday trying to get into the tunnel for section 19 some DCI VIPs were being abusive to the young lady checking tickets, no one else could pass so I missed the Glassmen. They looked like a bunch of vagrants, smelled like bums and when I got into the stadium we had to kick them out of our seats then they talk through the show a few seats away. This happens every year. No, no heads should roll.

[drumcat]

No heads should not roll at DCI for ruining finals week?? They trashed DCI on some of the most exciting Drum Corps we had in years. Not only was there the buzzing the field is patched all different colors of green and it looks horrible on EnCorps. The DVDs and CDs are worthless and ESPN2 is going to look and sound like crap. The Cadets antics on Thursday had BD cutoff in theaters out east; instead let's give them all a raise because that is going to happen anyway.

On Thursday trying to get into the tunnel for section 19 some DCI VIPs were being abusive to the young lady checking tickets, no one else could pass so I missed the Glassmen. They looked like a bunch of vagrants, smelled like bums and when I got into the stadium we had to kick them out of our seats then they talk through the show a few seats away. This happens every year. No, no heads should roll.

No, actually I think your assessment is unfair. Let me at least explain why:

First -- DCI isn't in the business of trashing its own product. Let's just get that silly statement out of the way now.

The field looked like poo, and no one would disagree. Is that DCI's fault? I don't see it. They contracted for the field, and the Rose Bowl grows the grass. Needless to say, I'm sure DCI's staff was as unhappy as anyone there about it.

The section 19 fiasco was squarely the fault of those minimum wage yellow-shirt types. Just because they couldn't handle their job doesn't mean that DCI had a choice in the matter. You don't get to pick which event staff you get when you get a building.

And finally, the buzz stunk. I grant you that, but, where was all of this outrage and annoyance with the facility after Tour of Champions? I'm pretty sure they didn't install different lights since then, much less more-outdated ones. Fans sure didn't seem bothered by it, at least here, and they had three years to ##### about it. I wasn't at ToC, so I didn't know. I was surprised, but then again, apparently so were the fans...

[drumcat]

Psst, mods, let's close this -- it's veering way off.

[Bluzes]

The field looked like poo, and no one would disagree. Is that DCI's fault? I don't see it. They contracted for the field, and the Rose Bowl grows the grass. Needless to say, I'm sure DCI's staff was as unhappy as anyone there about it.

The section 19 fiasco was squarely the fault of those minimum wage yellow-shirt types. Just because they couldn't handle their job doesn't mean that DCI had a choice in the matter. You don't get to pick which event staff you get when you get a building.

I think you missed the point, first of all the wage grade of an individual does not make them less of a person and she was just doing her job. It was the DCI VIP's who were being abusive to her they did not have tickets but expected to sit on the 50 in my seats no less. But anyway it appears you will defend DCI under any circumstances.

The whole organization is corrupt there is no real commitment to the kids especially Div 2 & 3. Moving them 200 miles from Indy next year is a sin so buckle your set belts I am about ready launch a email and Google campaign informing the Indy City Council, Tourism Board and anyone I can reach telling them about the true lack of commitment that DCI has to any real development of High School Musicians and I have the internet skills to have my web site appear any where I choose.

Unless you’re good enough to be in a top eight drum corps DCI does not what to have any commitment to your program. Well the City of the Grand Nationals is going to know about the real motives behind the current leadership of DCI and that is not to have anything to do with any drum corps does not have the ability to line their pockets.

I am not taking anything away from the kids in the top corps they’re wonderful young adults that already have their heads screwed on straight they are adding to Drum Corps as much as they are taking away. The real commitment is to the kids that are less fortunate in their own lives the younger ones in Div 2 & 3 who need the teamwork, discipline, friendship and guidance that those organizations provide to them. So I will do whatever it takes and I do not care whose toes I step on DCI, Indy or the State of Indiana and keep it up till Div 2 & 3 get a fair shake. Have a nice day.

[dbc03]

The field looked like poo, and no one would disagree. Is that DCI's fault? I don't see it. They contracted for the field, and the Rose Bowl grows the grass. Needless to say, I'm sure DCI's staff was as unhappy as anyone there about it.

The section 19 fiasco was squarely the fault of those minimum wage yellow-shirt types. Just because they couldn't handle their job doesn't mean that DCI had a choice in the matter. You don't get to pick which event staff you get when you get a building.

I think you missed the point, first of all the wage grade of an individual does not make them less of a person and she was just doing her job. It was the DCI VIP's who were being abusive to her they did not have tickets but expected to sit on the 50 in my seats no less. But anyway it appears you will defend DCI under any circumstances.

The whole organization is corrupt there is no real commitment to the kids especially Div 2 & 3. Moving them 200 miles from Indy next year is a sin so buckle your set belts I am about ready launch a email and Google campaign informing the Indy City Council, Tourism Board and anyone I can reach telling them about the true lack of commitment that DCI has to any real development of High School Musicians and I have the internet skills to have my web site appear any where I choose.

Unless you’re good enough to be in a top eight drum corps DCI does not what to have any commitment to your program. Well the City of the Grand Nationals is going to know about the real motives behind the current leadership of DCI and that is not to have anything to do with any drum corps does not have the ability to line their pockets.

I am not taking anything away from the kids in the top corps they’re wonderful young adults that already have their heads screwed on straight they are adding to Drum Corps as much as they are taking away. The real commitment is to the kids that are less fortunate in their own lives the younger ones in Div 2 & 3 who need the teamwork, discipline, friendship and guidance that those organizations provide to them. So I will do whatever it takes and I do not care whose toes I step on DCI, Indy or the State of Indiana and keep it up till Div 2 & 3 get a fair shake. Have a nice day.

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