Would if DIV 1 had no age limit only a age minimum like a pro sport?

[sburstall]

You know, this is exactly my point. Hardly anyone knew what curling was before the last winter olympics, and then it went on TV and everyone loved it. I think this is exactly what would happen if DCI were to compete in the olympics. I mean, one ESPN2 broadcast per year doesn't exactly get people's attention. Much more people pay attention to the olympics.

I knew what curling was (I get the CBC so I see it often). :P

ahem, you are right. DCI needs to do more than just show exerpts of Finals once or twice a year. It needs to become engrained on a weekly basis on the likes of ESPN and of the other alphabet tv companies. The pros and universities didn't become as big as they are just from showing one game a year.

Edited August 27, 2007 by sburstall

[CVQuesty]

Yes, but they don't tour, sleep, and shower in facilities like junior corps. Maybe I'm wrong and some DCA's take their sleeping bags around... but AFAIK, they don't.

You are incorrect. We will stay in a hotel once this season, and that's Championships. We stayed on community center floors in Maryland and in a Comm. center gym floor in Ohio this year. Due to the large number of teens we have in DCA corps now, an $80-90 a night hotel stay is no longer feasible. The etirety of our corps does just this, and it is not unlike a Jr. housing site. It also puts us closer to rehearsal facilities and makes it easier to get an earlier start with limited interruptions during rehearsals.

Even what I call the "non touring" DCA corps (those who only travel between 4 and 6 hours to shows) find facilities and bed down for the night.

Heck, for Alpharetta, we still had showers between rehearsal time and show time, thus the "showers" situation you allude to earlier.

I thought they hotel'd up, or drove, etc. I've never heard of a DCA corps needing housing at some high school for a Tuesday night. Maybe you take that as a flame, but I'm serious and I'm not being mean in any way, nor accusing anyone of anything. What I'm saying is that, as the OP described, you took an ALL AGE, and add a FULL TOUR, you end up with this supercool thing. I'm telling you it's impractical for a lot of reasons, and that might be the first thing that comes to mind. It's not the interaction or makeup of the group, but the suggestion that we'll all go hang out and do a DCI-style tour with any age performers. That raises lots of red flags.

Some do. Some fly, some drive, but we still have two tour buses almost at capacity plus two equipment trucks. DCA corps are not the "senior corps" of yesteryear in terms of how things are done. Since "All-age" is the nom de plume, it is also remarkably descriptive. From the time I take off work to go ANYwhere, I get into touring mode. We do a full pack (my 15 year old son who marches with me and I), we arrive at the bus loading site (our American Legion Post 233). We pack in like a Jr. corps, we travel like a Jr. corps, we have scheduled stops at a restaurant rather than with our cook truck, we get to housing site, unpack and bed down until call. We get call and rehearse or whatever. Then, load up, change en route, (sometimes on show site) and then perform. We all shower, pack back in, take roll and then hit the pavement back to home base.

Literally, the differences revolve around no cook truck, some flyers and drivers, and limited touring. After all, why mess with a tour practice that actually works?

I didn't say ANYTHING about how DCA corps operate, or anything of the like. I put the concern out based on what the OP SAID. If you still disagree with me, fine, but take it for what it is -- a huge hypothetical of any age adults and teens traveling around overnight for a summer, sleeping and grooming and interacting. That hypothetical could be a concern, could it not?

No, it could not.

Many corps in DCA do have teens. An interesting thing happens (I've found, other corps' mileage may vary because... well... their mileage varies in their tour). We have two buses... The "of age" bus and the "not of age bus". THe "of age" bus is the one that allows cold adult beverages and general adult hobnobbing and the like. The second bus (the one I ride, which is why bus 1 sucks) is the underage and non-drinker bus.

The dynamic that occurs, though, is curious. The young people that come into our corps wind up with 50 older brothers/sisters. We look out for our little bros/sises. We keep an eye on them, protect them, teach them where to go and what to do, prepare them for the year. We guide them as musicians and young adults, and have in several cases now actually prepared them for their Jr. auditions, sent them off to Jr. corps, and then been at finals to cheer them on when they go on the field.

To assume impropriety is misguided at best.

As we have seen with any number of activities, impropriety can ad will exist out there. Where? Not here. I can't speak for anyone else, but given the high class of MOST EVERYONE I've met in DCA, you have people that genuinely care for their corps-mates, and will see to it that they are taken care of. Simply spoken, the 40 + 17 combination you've presented is illegal. We will see to it that ayone taking advantage of a youngster in such manner will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. (I'm on our board... I'm certain this would be the case)

Ok, I understand this is the Internet, and I understand these are just conversations, but you can't just make assertions that call into question the fine organizations represented and the leadership that is required to put corps on the road and on the field whether or not they tour a few weekends of the summer or the entire summer is immaterial.

Do you assume the same thing regarding Staffer X with corps Y? They tour all summer with kids. They shower in the same facilities the kids do. Are you assuming the implied behavior goes on now in Jr. corps? See where I'm coming from?

Edited August 27, 2007 by CVQuesty

[CVQuesty]

The route I would see happening is II/III becoming what Div I is now, which would be the experience requirement to be eligible for the pro-league, Div I. DCA would still be the alternative. Perhaps if this happened and II/III improved enough to be almost as good as the current Div I corps, DCI could create a fourth division.

Hehehe, I could imagine if drum corps became popular enough that it could create leagues for little kids. Instead of signing up for little league baseball in the spring, kids would sign up for little league drum corps...that would be funny (yet awesome).

I have heard the statistic repeated that at one point there were more drum corps in America than little league chapters.

[Achilles]

Love the idea. Proposed it here - to unsympathetic response - long ago. I suggest if anything it would promote D2/3, not kill it off, if done properly.

We'll be there soon enough when DCI rolls out the Scholastic Division.

[Jami]

Yes, but they don't tour, sleep, and shower in facilities like junior corps. Maybe I'm wrong and some DCA's take their sleeping bags around... but AFAIK, they don't. I thought they hotel'd up, or drove, etc. I've never heard of a DCA corps needing housing at some high school for a Tuesday night. Maybe you take that as a flame, but I'm serious and I'm not being mean in any way, nor accusing anyone of anything. What I'm saying is that, as the OP described, you took an ALL AGE, and add a FULL TOUR, you end up with this supercool thing. I'm telling you it's impractical for a lot of reasons, and that might be the first thing that comes to mind. It's not the interaction or makeup of the group, but the suggestion that we'll all go hang out and do a DCI-style tour with any age performers. That raises lots of red flags.

I didn't say ANYTHING about how DCA corps operate, or anything of the like. I put the concern out based on what the OP SAID. If you still disagree with me, fine, but take it for what it is -- a huge hypothetical of any age adults and teens traveling around overnight for a summer, sleeping and grooming and interacting. That hypothetical could be a concern, could it not?

Hi.

In my 3 years with the Reading Buccaneers, do you know how many times I've stayed in a hotel?

0.

For the very same reasons that Jerald listed with Corps Vets, we stay in high schools, middle schools, and even the Jewish Community Center once to minimize costs. Not to mention that in most cases of those stays, the field was right behind us. Why stay in a hotel and have to travel to another field when you can step outside and it's right there?

I will agree with you in this case: it would be impractical for me to go on tour again. Could I? Sure - I'm in the physical condition to still do it. Would I give my job and my apartment to do so? Absolutely not.

I did it for two years - from the time I was 20 until I aged out. Then I became an adult.

[Martybucs]

Hi.

In my 3 years with the Reading Buccaneers, do you know how many times I've stayed in a hotel?

0.

For the very same reasons that Jerald listed with Corps Vets, we stay in high schools, middle schools, and even the Jewish Community Center once to minimize costs. Not to mention that in most cases of those stays, the field was right behind us. Why stay in a hotel and have to travel to another field when you can step outside and it's right there?

I will agree with you in this case: it would be impractical for me to go on tour again. Could I? Sure - I'm in the physical condition to still do it. Would I give my job and my apartment to do so? Absolutely not.

I did it for two years - from the time I was 20 until I aged out. Then I became an adult.

One only has to see Bucs show this year to know that DCI standards of performance are possible in an all age corps, such as DCA.

As good as the top 12? Pretty darn close and without the luxury of auditioning the best of the best.

Someone mentioned older players not being able to play as well as a 20-30 year old. At 54 years old I'm playing the best I've ever played and I play cleaner than most DCI soprano soloists that I've heard.

Edited August 27, 2007 by Martybucs

[CVQuesty]

I will agree with you in this case: it would be impractical for me to go on tour again. Could I? Sure - I'm in the physical condition to still do it. Would I give my job and my apartment to do so? Absolutely not.

I know I'd go for it. These ol' knees would have one, maybe two good seasons in them, and I'd jump at the chance. You see, I'm going back to school not too long from now, and will have summers free. Currently, I plan on getting on somewhere and staffing. If I could be involved (not having had the chance back when) I'd do it today.

Good conversation!

(Hi Jami! )

Edited August 27, 2007 by CVQuesty

[CVQuesty]

One only has to see Bucs show this year to know that DCI standards of performance are possible in an all age corps, such as DCA.

As good as the top 12? Pretty darn close and without the luxury of auditioning the best of the best.

Someone mentioned older players not being able to play as well as a 20-30 year old. At 54 years old I'm playing the best I've ever played and I cleaner than most DCI soprano soloists that I've heard.

Yeah, Marty. Bucs are just freaks! Great corps.

I play better than I did in college, for sure.

Like I said earlier, I'd have a real motivation to lose these last few pounds and do the tour like it was intended. (I know it'd never happen, but one can wish!)

[drumcat]

You are incorrect. We will stay in a hotel once this season, and that's Championships. We stayed on community center floors in Maryland and in a Comm. center gym floor in Ohio this year. Due to the large number of teens we have in DCA corps now, an $80-90 a night hotel stay is no longer feasible. The etirety of our corps does just this, and it is not unlike a Jr. housing site. It also puts us closer to rehearsal facilities and makes it easier to get an earlier start with limited interruptions during rehearsals.

Even what I call the "non touring" DCA corps (those who only travel between 4 and 6 hours to shows) find facilities and bed down for the night.

Heck, for Alpharetta, we still had showers between rehearsal time and show time, thus the "showers" situation you allude to earlier.

Some do. Some fly, some drive, but we still have two tour buses almost at capacity plus two equipment trucks. DCA corps are not the "senior corps" of yesteryear in terms of how things are done. Since "All-age" is the nom de plume, it is also remarkably descriptive. From the time I take off work to go ANYwhere, I get into touring mode. We do a full pack (my 15 year old son who marches with me and I), we arrive at the bus loading site (our American Legion Post 233). We pack in like a Jr. corps, we travel like a Jr. corps, we have scheduled stops at a restaurant rather than with our cook truck, we get to housing site, unpack and bed down until call. We get call and rehearse or whatever. Then, load up, change en route, (sometimes on show site) and then perform. We all shower, pack back in, take roll and then hit the pavement back to home base.

Literally, the differences revolve around no cook truck, some flyers and drivers, and limited touring. After all, why mess with a tour practice that actually works?

No, it could not.

Many corps in DCA do have teens. An interesting thing happens (I've found, other corps' mileage may vary because... well... their mileage varies in their tour). We have two buses... The "of age" bus and the "not of age bus". THe "of age" bus is the one that allows cold adult beverages and general adult hobnobbing and the like. The second bus (the one I ride, which is why bus 1 sucks) is the underage and non-drinker bus.

The dynamic that occurs, though, is curious. The young people that come into our corps wind up with 50 older brothers/sisters. We look out for our little bros/sises. We keep an eye on them, protect them, teach them where to go and what to do, prepare them for the year. We guide them as musicians and young adults, and have in several cases now actually prepared them for their Jr. auditions, sent them off to Jr. corps, and then been at finals to cheer them on when they go on the field.

To assume impropriety is misguided at best.

As we have seen with any number of activities, impropriety can ad will exist out there. Where? Not here. I can't speak for anyone else, but given the high class of MOST EVERYONE I've met in DCA, you have people that genuinely care for their corps-mates, and will see to it that they are taken care of. Simply spoken, the 40 + 17 combination you've presented is illegal. We will see to it that ayone taking advantage of a youngster in such manner will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. (I'm on our board... I'm certain this would be the case)

Ok, I understand this is the Internet, and I understand these are just conversations, but you can't just make assertions that call into question the fine organizations represented and the leadership that is required to put corps on the road and on the field whether or not they tour a few weekends of the summer or the entire summer is immaterial.

Do you assume the same thing regarding Staffer X with corps Y? They tour all summer with kids. They shower in the same facilities the kids do. Are you assuming the implied behavior goes on now in Jr. corps? See where I'm coming from?

I fully understand where you are coming from. First, I'm not assuming impropriety; I'm assuming that the perception would exist for the greater possibility of it happening. 20 and 16 are illegal, and that exists in Jr. corps today. Maybe my perception of what most DCA corps do for overnights is misguided, but even so, I submit to you that even my misperception is a concern. You've corrected my idea of how you travel, but just because I'm unaware of how you travel fully, the perception of a wide age range(including minors) and problems therein can at least stir questions about the situation. Even with clarity in your statement, which I do appreciate, the OP still did mention a "professional" situation. Of course, if I was paying people, they'd all be at least 18, and at which point, these problems dramatically downturn, but I stand by my assertion that there would be concern. The concern is a perception, and not the reality, but if you're asking why this could be a bad idea, I think dealing with this type of situation makes it one.

[piperguy]

I honestly believe if drum corps competed in the olympics, it would garner a LOT of attention and drum corps would become much more popular, which could cause revenue increases.

Fencing is an Olympic sport, and I don't see many fencing contests on ESPN, or curling for that matter. Just because something is in the Olympics doesn't mean it'll automatically be more popular. Drum corps is a niche activity, and I honestly don't see too much of an increase in popularity in the future.