I've finally seen the light.

[Einstein On The Beach]

OK, then...

I'll agree that from a logistical standpoint the new horns make sense. I personally prefer the sound of a chrome plated G bugle, but there are nice sounds coming from the current horns. Surely, manufacturing quality is but one reason the G horns are all but gone in the jr corps. After all, how many music majors want to get kicked out of the "studio" (what a pretentious word for a tiny, cinderblock walled office in a college music building, huh?) because they have (or want to) "ruin" their chops? Three valves makes sense. What I don't know is why they can't still be called bugles. Sure, they aren't "true" bugles, but they weren't before the changeover either. Nevermind, I know why. Let's not pretend that the Bb horns are the epitome of craftsmanship, however. If standardization of pedagogy is your goal, invent a time machine and make all western instruments play in the same native key! Why should a Bb trombone be in concert pitch but not a Bb trumpet? Not to mention those pesky strings and all of those sharps! (That's NOT sarcasm, btw, except for the time machine part.)

1) Bb trombones don't exist, they're in C. If they DO exist they aren't in wide scale use, if it all

2) Studio is not a pretentious word for a studio of musicians in a college, this is pretty standard vocabulary. Next you're going to say that the term "University" is pretentious because it implies that the school encompasses the universe, or whatever rationale you or someone else may decide to use.

3) There's a reason why so many different key bases developed for various wind instruments, mostly because they aren't as malleable as string instruments, but I'm not even going to get into that now. I'll just put out there that there's a reason there are Bb, C, Eb, E, and F trumpets. There's a reason a french horn is actually an F and a Bb horn, there's a reason the trombone is in C, that an alto sax is in Eb, reasons for all of them. Google it.

LMAO ROFL

Soon it will be Electronic Drum and Trumpet Corps, along with oboes and piccolos.

Oboe and piccolo players make more money than any snare player I know.

[atlvalet]

This thread broke my brain.

You think this thread broke your brain?

Wait until the mellophone section becomes the french horn section.

[DKracing]

2) Studio is not a pretentious word for a studio of musicians in a college, this is pretty standard vocabulary. Next you're going to say that the term "University" is pretentious because it implies that the school encompasses the universe, or whatever rationale you or someone else may decide to use.

1.the workroom or atelier of an artist, as a painter or sculptor.

2.a room or place for instruction or experimentation in one of the performing arts: a dance studio.

3.a room or set of rooms specially equipped for broadcasting radio or television programs, making phonograph records, filming motion pictures, etc.

4.all the buildings and adjacent land required or used by a company engaged in the production of motion pictures.

Yeah, doesn't seem pretentious to me...

Edited September 28, 2007 by DKracing

[Einstein On The Beach]

Uh oh, cowtown's gonna release a bomb in this thread

tick tick boom

[stifled4mallettechnique]

I was just using examples I've frequently seen used on DCP, I don't personally see that much of a correlation between sports (in general) and drum corps (in general). But I disagree that hybridization of different musical and visual styles would destroy drum corps. I think we need to first of all realize that "drum corps" doesn't exist anymore, it's evolved far beyond the bounds of its initial conception into an activity that would be almost wholly unrecognized by the first participants. It's still drum corps by name and heritage only, so let's stop pretending.

Well, aside from lack of direct contact and interaction between corps on the field, the training, discipline, athleticism, and teamwork aspects mirror those of team sports. In other ways drum corps mirrors individual sports as the competition is, in essence against oneself (one corps) to improve no matter what the others do, and as in many cases the judging of the event can be subjective. I acknowledge that examples to the contrary can be made, but believe that the life lessons are comparable. Too bad the pay isn't!

I don't think that the previous evolution of drum corps warrants rendering it extinct; that is, no different from bands. Since we agree on woodwinds, we may find a degree of common ground here. I don't see any reason why different formats shouldn't exist. I just don't know why drum corps has to die for it to happen. Is DCI going bankrupt? Why doesn't BOA branch out into summer touring programs?

Do you feel that narration should be judged objectively, subjectively, or both? Should a corps lose points if the narrative content stinks or detracts from the overall effect? How can something like that even be judged objectively? Granted, GE is too subjective in and of itself.

Leaning off topic, do you feel that all changes have been beneficial up to now?

(EDIT)Many edits for spelling, etc. Sorry for any confusion.(END EDIT)

Edited September 28, 2007 by stifled4mallettechnique

[Lance]

The guy says he wasn't bashing them. The guy says it was a joke. The guy says we misunderstood his humor.

He was being ironic in a thread built on irony. Irony, sarcasm, humor...obviously lost to some people, but not all, thank goodness. Wow.

[mistofflies]

Well, aside from direct contact and interaction between corps on the field, the training, discipline, athleticism, and teamwork aspects mirror those of team sports. In other ways it mirrors individual sports as the competition is, in essence against oneself (one corps) to improve no matter what the others do, and as in many cases the judging of the event can be subjective. I acknowledge that examples to the contrary can be made, but believe that the life lessons are comperable regardless. Too bad the pay isn't!

You could say the same about drum corps and the military, but I haven't seen anyone make that comparison yet (minus the fact that drum corps has very prevalent militaristic roots). You could say it about a host of different activities. I guess what I'm getting at is I see the argument commonly made that drum corps, like soccer, would cease to be drum corps if you changed all the rules...just as soccer would under the same set of conditions. But I believe that the differences between drum corps and team sports make that comparison invalid.

I don't think that the previous evolution of drum corps warrants rendering it extinct; that is, no different from bands. Since we agree on woodwinds, we may find a degree of common ground here. I don't see any reason why different formats should exist. I just don't know why drum corps has to die for it to happen. Is DCI going bankrupt? Why doesn't BOA branch out into summer touring programs?

I'm not quite sure what you're saying here...I'm not saying that drum corps is extinct...just that drum corps has changed beyond the scope of that the label "drum corps" actually means. I have no problem with continuing to call it drum corps, because that's its heritage, but it's a very different activity now than it was 20-30 years ago...even 10 years ago. My point was actually that without the changes that have occurred throughout the past, drum corps today probably would be dying out. Despite the decreased number of participating corps from 30 years ago, I believe the activity is actually getting stronger. Heck, we've even recently seen the formation of new corps and re-activation of previously retired corps! That's cause for excitement, I think.

Do you feel that narration should be judged objectively, subjectively, or both? Should a corps lose points if the narrative content stinks or detracts from the overall effect? How can something like that even be judged objectively? Granted, GE is too subjective in and of itself.

That's a difficult one, and almost a whole different can of worms. I personally believe that the entire judging system should be revamped, and that less emphasis should be placed on GE overall. But we have to be careful, because GE is what actually makes the show exciting (combined with proper execution, of course). I don't want to return to the days of the tick system because I believe that would detract from much of the innovative work that corps are doing these days...imagine a show like Cadets 05 or Cavies 02/03 under the tick system...they simply wouldn't exist. I think that narration could be judged both objectively and subjectively...objectively due to syntax, pronunciation, timing, execution, etc. There would be obvious exceptions, perhaps a corps want to include "slice-of-life" narration demonstrating a specific dialect, in which case they should make that clear. Maybe they should have a copy of the script to give the judge scoring the narration so verify that it was executed correctly. And of course, if it detracts from the overall effect it SHOULD count against the scoring, because that's what the judges are there to do...assign a number.

Leaning off topic, do you feel that all changes have been beneficial up to now?

Yes, I do.

[stifled4mallettechnique]

1) Bb trombones don't exist, they're in C. If they DO exist they aren't in wide scale use, if it all

2) Studio is not a pretentious word for a studio of musicians in a college, this is pretty standard vocabulary. Next you're going to say that the term "University" is pretentious because it implies that the school encompasses the universe, or whatever rationale you or someone else may decide to use.

3) There's a reason why so many different key bases developed for various wind instruments, mostly because they aren't as malleable as string instruments, but I'm not even going to get into that now. I'll just put out there that there's a reason there are Bb, C, Eb, E, and F trumpets. There's a reason a french horn is actually an F and a Bb horn, there's a reason the trombone is in C, that an alto sax is in Eb, reasons for all of them. Google it.

1)You love the semantics game, don't you?

2)The term "University" is pretentious because it implies that the school encompasses the universe.

You must be psychic! Although technically that statement wasn't "next"... Standard usage does not unpretentious make, not even when standardized to the point of definition. But we can save that discussion for "Philosophy Planet". Perhaps you assumed a particular definition of the word that somehow offended you? The intent of the comment was obviously lost on you.

3)Of course there are reasons. None that couldn't be rectified if one had a time machine. Fixing it now would be harder than converting the US to the metric system. No Googling necessary. Responding to posts works better in the context of the post you're responding to than the context of another post that responded to the post that you're responding to. Long story short, if every instrument were in the same key, it would certainly be more convenient. Contrarily, if every instrument could be found in every key, that would be useful as well, depending on one's definition of "useful", of course.

[audiodb]

1) Bb trombones don't exist, they're in C. If they DO exist they aren't in wide scale use, if it all

Excuse me? Trombone was my first wind instrument, and the one I played was pitched in Bb (as were all the others around me).

[Einstein On The Beach]

Excuse me? Trombone was my first wind instrument, and the one I played was pitched in Bb (as were all the others around me).

Hmm, really?

My b