DCIHasBeen Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 Just a personal thought here...but the only person's entertainment you'd be footing the bill for THAT MATTERS is that of your child. When it's all said and done, they won't remember the people in the stands enjoying themselves...they'll remember the good times they had, the friends they made, the responsibility they developed, the feeling of accomplishment, the sense of adventure, the travel, the hardships but also the payoff of knowing they worked hard to do their job well...They'll have memories for a lifetime and they can only march junior corps when they're young. They'll have the rest of their lives to make money. It's your call if that is worth "footing the bill." If not, there are lots of well adjusted kids out there who get great life experiences out of activities and ventures not connected with drum corps. But I have yet to meet any parents who tell me their kid marched drum corps and add, "Boy, was THAT a waste of our money." removed flame-bait - TS Mike: Back when we were marching, if it cost anywhere near what it does today to be in a DCI corps, would YOUR parents have footed the bill? Seriously? I know my Mom wouldn't front a dime for me to be in drum corps and if it wasn't for the fact that I could keep a job during the summer, back then, I wouldn't have marched in a major corps. There are plenty of places where kids can get commeraderie and have the experience of a lifetime, in drum corps or other venues ... Most of 'em don't cost anywhere near what junior drum corps, on DCI corps' terms, does these days. Oh, and by the way, they can also do senior/all-age corps and have a great, life-changing, experience and not run into any of the kind of costs required to participate in a DCI corps. But that's DCA, not DCI, and you don't work for them so that doesn't get mentioned. DCI does not represent the sum total of the Drum Corps experience. There are decent alternatives and they actually allow kids to have a more balanced life at a much lower expense. We've been friends a long time, and I value what you've done for the activity over the years, but please don't expect me, or anyone else, to accept your spouting of things in support of the DCI Corporate Agenda as the unbiased commentary of a disinterested observer. I don't want to say that you're a "schill for the man", but you are basically a schill for the man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinwiz Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 Back when we were marching, if it cost anywhere near what it does today to be in a DCI corps, would YOUR parents have footed the bill? Seriously? I know my Mom wouldn't front a dime for me to be in drum corps and if it wasn't for the fact that I could keep a job during the summer, back then, I wouldn't have marched in a major corps. Because you couldn't get a job to pay for the tour fees. That's what I did after my first summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khokhonutt Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 Just a personal thought here...but the only person's entertainment you'd be footing the bill for THAT MATTERS is that of your child. When it's all said and done, they won't remember the people in the stands enjoying themselves...they'll remember the good times they had, the friends they made, the responsibility they developed, the feeling of accomplishment, the sense of adventure, the travel, the hardships but also the payoff of knowing they worked hard to do their job well...They'll have memories for a lifetime and they can only march junior corps when they're young. They'll have the rest of their lives to make money. It's your call if that is worth "footing the bill." If not, there are lots of well adjusted kids out there who get great life experiences out of activities and ventures not connected with drum corps. But I have yet to meet any parents who tell me their kid marched drum corps and add, "Boy, was THAT a waste of our money." It's easy to point out one line of what I said and then expound upon the merits of the activity. I don't argue the activity itself is a good thing for the kids. In fact I absolutely love the corps my son marched with. What I'm wrestling with is whether I ultimately want to support a parent organization that operates as it does. I'll also pick a point of contention that the only person THAT MATTERS is my kid. Don't get me wrong, I'll do anything for my kids, but I think one of the main problems with society and kids today is that kids are allowed to be far too self centered. We constantly teach the importance of the family and for thinking of others. The idea that I should blindly send my kid off for the summer and forget he exists is insane. I'm not saying that's what you're telling me to do, but the way finals seem to be setup at this point, that's what DCI is saying. To clarify, the point to that I was making in that comment was, do I, as a father, want to foot the bill for an activity where once I've paid for my son to participate will know his parents have little or no chance to share in the fruits of his labor. Or sure, I can be religated to a movie theater performance (which his corps did not make) or a DVD, but that's not the same as being there when he performs, then going down to meet him afterwards to congratulate him. I'll stop beating the dead horse now. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbc03 Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 Mike: Back when we were marching, if it cost anywhere near what it does today to be in a DCI corps, would YOUR parents have footed the bill? Seriously? I know my Mom wouldn't front a dime for me to be in drum corps and if it wasn't for the fact that I could keep a job during the summer, back then, I wouldn't have marched in a major corps. Then you could have gotten a part time job during the rest of the year or found sponsors like a lot of people do now. Or you could have used the money as an excuse to not march like a lot of people do now. I realize that there are some situations where it really just isn't possible for someone to get that kind of money, but if people really set their minds to it most of them would be able to come up with $2000 in 9 months. If someone works 10 hours a week for 9 months minimum wage would cover that and then some. There are plenty of places where kids can get commeraderie and have the experience of a lifetime, in drum corps or other venues ... Most of 'em don't cost anywhere near what junior drum corps, on DCI corps' terms, does these days.Oh, and by the way, they can also do senior/all-age corps and have a great, life-changing, experience and not run into any of the kind of costs required to participate in a DCI corps. But that's DCA, not DCI, and you don't work for them so that doesn't get mentioned. DCI does not represent the sum total of the Drum Corps experience. There are decent alternatives and they actually allow kids to have a more balanced life at a much lower expense. This is almost a good point, until you realize that DCA and DCI are nothing alike. There is an unbelievable difference between marching on weekends and actually living on the road, on your own for 3 months. You could have just as easily have said "Hey, is that apple too expensive for you? Here try this orange they are pretty much the same thing" DCI might not be the sum total of the drum corps experience, but it is the sum total of the JUNIOR experience, which is what Mike said. We've been friends a long time, and I value what you've done for the activity over the years, but please don't expect me, or anyone else, to accept your spouting of things in support of the DCI Corporate Agenda as the unbiased commentary of a disinterested observer. I don't want to say that you're a "schill for the man", but you are basically a schill for the man. Yeah, Mike is such a sellout for saying that marching drum corps is about the member and not the parents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbc03 Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 It's easy to point out one line of what I said and then expound upon the merits of the activity. I don't argue the activity itself is a good thing for the kids. In fact I absolutely love the corps my son marched with. What I'm wrestling with is whether I ultimately want to support a parent organization that operates as it does.I'll also pick a point of contention that the only person THAT MATTERS is my kid. Don't get me wrong, I'll do anything for my kids, but I think one of the main problems with society and kids today is that kids are allowed to be far too self centered. We constantly teach the importance of the family and for thinking of others. The idea that I should blindly send my kid off for the summer and forget he exists is insane. I'm not saying that's what you're telling me to do, but the way finals seem to be setup at this point, that's what DCI is saying. There are other shows besides DCI finals. All of them are cheaper. To clarify, the point to that I was making in that comment was, do I, as a father, want to foot the bill for an activity where once I've paid for my son to participate will know his parents have little or no chance to share in the fruits of his labor. Or sure, I can be religated to a movie theater performance (which his corps did not make) or a DVD, but that's not the same as being there when he performs, then going down to meet him afterwards to congratulate him.I'll stop beating the dead horse now. :) The fruits of ones labor in drum corps is as much about a 11 and a half minute show as Astronomy is about telescopes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peel Paint Posted October 12, 2007 Author Share Posted October 12, 2007 Disclaimer missing from that post: The preceeding announcement was brought to you by Michael Boo, a wholely-owned subsidiary of Drum Corps International.[snip] We've been friends a long time, and I value what you've done for the activity over the years, but please don't expect me, or anyone else, to accept your spouting of things in support of the DCI Corporate Agenda as the unbiased commentary of a disinterested observer. I don't want to say that you're a "schill for the man", but you are basically a schill for the man. I think those two parts of your post are a personal slam that is uncalled for. You're implying that Mike's ties to DCI have impugned his integrity here and are leading him to use his position in an unfair manner to mislead others. That's not the case. He's entitled to express his opinion here just as you are. Sure, I get your point that he should have put in a disclaimer line the way a news organization does with business ties to a story its reporting, but Mike wasn't speaking as a DCI shill. It's stuff like this that is one key factor that leads many drum corps insiders to not participate on DCP, and if Mike were to leave DCP because people couldn't read what he posted without thinking he was shilling for DCI, that would be a shame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsvalues Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 I think those two parts of your post are a personal slam that is uncalled for. You're implying that Mike's ties to DCI have impugned his integrity here and are leading him to use his position in an unfair manner to mislead others. That's not the case. He's entitled to express his opinion here just as you are. Sure, I get your point that he should have put in a disclaimer line the way a news organization does with business ties to a story its reporting, but Mike wasn't speaking as a DCI shill. It's stuff like this that is one key factor that leads many drum corps insiders to not participate on DCP, and if Mike were to leave DCP because people couldn't read what he posted without thinking he was shilling for DCI, that would be a shame. I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudi man Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 Call or email DCI. Folks in wheelchairs will have a designated area, probably a pretty good one in a new stadium, and folks who are not in wheelchairs but can't do a lot of stairs get priority for aisle seats near ramps.Thanks I'll do that . :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCIHasBeen Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 (edited) I think those two parts of your post are a personal slam that is uncalled for. You're implying that Mike's ties to DCI have impugned his integrity here and are leading him to use his position in an unfair manner to mislead others. That's not the case. He's entitled to express his opinion here just as you are. Sure, I get your point that he should have put in a disclaimer line the way a news organization does with business ties to a story its reporting, but Mike wasn't speaking as a DCI shill. It's stuff like this that is one key factor that leads many drum corps insiders to not participate on DCP, and if Mike were to leave DCP because people couldn't read what he posted without thinking he was shilling for DCI, that would be a shame. Nope not a personal slam at all ... And I'm sure Mike knows that. Not even a sprinkling of intent in that direction. Mike does a lot for the activity, and has for decades ... Much of it a for no, or ridiculously low, pay and even less recognition (Still not sure why he isn't a DCI Hall of Fame member at this point, it's long overdue.) At this point, though, I think objectivity is an issue and he's way too close to DCI for his personal opinion not to be interlaced with the interests of his employer. As for the schill comment ... It was intended as a "wink-wink". Just accept the fact that I haven't posted anything here that I haven't already said to him in person ... Edited October 12, 2007 by DCIHasBeen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudi man Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 :) I'll bet my old thread " Jars in Bars " is starting to sound pretty good to some people right now ? :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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