BDCorno Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 1977 27th Lancers had a bad arse French Horn line and they were LOUD and in tune. Let's start paying homage to some awesome lines! I don't think there will ever be a louder marching french horn than the old piston/rotor "long" model horns. Gawwd. Love 'em... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay B Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Beautifully said Mr. Tuttle. Mellophones and those little baritones don't quit support the middle like a french horn, although I didn't always feel this way. I'm not certain, but I believe that the french horn bugle started life in the fifties. And, like most new voices that were invented in the 50s/60s era (french, contra. mello), it was usually overemphasized by arrangers. Listen to many recordings from that period and you will quickly tire of ripping french horns, as well as enough intonation bombs to win a war. Non-formally trained players instructed to blast away sometimes produced some pretty ugly sound . I really didn't warm to its use until the late seventies beginning with 79 BD. Phantom also used it well. Here I think you began to have the convergence of better players, better instruction, and improved horn design. I don't think anyone ever orchestrated for the mellophone and french better than those 79 thru 82 Blue Devils. I can't speak to those who have brought up the mouth piece issue. I never had an issue with it, but then again I wasn't a music major trying out for a symphony chair. If in fact trumpet players are a "dime a dozen", then why not use trumpet mouth pieces on french horns. The sound will be altered, but maybe in a good way. Just a thought. If the french horn "bugle" cannot be played well while using todays marching styles, then I think that speaks more to the hegemony of visual design more than anything else. Are we sacrificing an important brass voice or, for that matter, execution in all areas in order to run around the field at 120 mph? Anyway, I hope the french horn makes a comeback. It is indeed missed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfmello Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 1977 27th Lancers had a bad arse French Horn line and they were LOUD and in tune. Let's start paying homage to some awesome lines! I have to put a word in for the '88 Madison French horn line. Just after the re-entry and before the build to the park and blow in our closer...wow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancerlady Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 I have to put a word in for the '88 Madison French horn line. Just after the re-entry and before the build to the park and blow in our closer...wow. Yes, I so agree. That is one of my favorite mellophone solo's too btw... :doh: I know it sounds funny to some but to me that is a "SEXY" solo... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDCorno Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 B)--> QUOTE(Jay B @ Oct 10 2007, 05:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Beautifully said Mr. Tuttle. Mellophones and those little baritones don't quit support the middle like a french horn, although I didn't always feel this way. I'm not certain, but I believe that the french horn bugle started life in the fifties. And, like most new voices that were invented in the 50s/60s era (french, contra. mello), it was usually overemphasized by arrangers. Listen to many recordings from that period and you will quickly tire of ripping french horns, as well as enough intonation bombs to win a war. Non-formally trained players instructed to blast away sometimes produced some pretty ugly sound . I really didn't warm to its use until the late seventies beginning with 79 BD. Phantom also used it well. Here I think you began to have the convergence of better players, better instruction, and improved horn design. I don't think anyone ever orchestrated for the mellophone and french better than those 79 thru 82 Blue Devils. I can't speak to those who have brought up the mouth piece issue. I never had an issue with it, but then again I wasn't a music major trying out for a symphony chair. If in fact trumpet players are a "dime a dozen", then why not use trumpet mouth pieces on french horns. The sound will be altered, but maybe in a good way. Just a thought. If the french horn "bugle" cannot be played well while using todays marching styles, then I think that speaks more to the hegemony of visual design more than anything else. Are we sacrificing an important brass voice or, for that matter, execution in all areas in order to run around the field at 120 mph? Anyway, I hope the french horn makes a comeback. It is indeed missed. Thanks for the comments. I have to agree with you that the 79-82 middle horn arrangements for BD were outstanding (we did have 8 flugels and four of them doubled on mello). Wayne did a great job of creating a middle voice that emulated the sax ensemble of a jazz band. This is where the unique BD sound came from. When I first joined in 1976, Jim Ott was doing most of the arranging, so as Wayne transitioned into that role it took a couple of years to refine his sound. He did benefit from some very good french hornists (not to mention outstanding flugel players as well) in that particular time span - but he might have been the premier drum corps arranger for french horn ever. I guess when the outstanding players dried up, it was too easy to phase them out. It's a shame that french hornists are essentially neglected by the corps activity as a whole. Trumpet, trombone, euphonium and tuba players all "have a place" and benefit from the brass programs offered by drum corps. French hornists are required to go over to mellophone or "alto" instruments. To me this does a big disservice to the horn community. It also belies the concept of partnership with scholastic band programs that DCI and its affiliates are supposedly trying to promote. What band director wouldn't love to see a french horn player come back every September a far better player, knowing that his local drum corps was elevating that part of his/her program??? Not going to happen these days, I'm sad to say. School band programs can't ignore french horns - directors are stuck trying to deal with what they've been dealt. Corps, on the other hand, simply sweep french horns under the rug because they simply don't want to work to develop that part of the line. I came to corps a mediocre player, and left a solid, strong player - not a star by any means (that's what we had Chris for), but I can't discount the impact that corps had on my playing. I'm fairly disappointed that corps these days, perhaps in the rush to WIN, don't take the time to TEACH and DEVELOP french horn players. Aren't they there to educate? With all due respect to the top brass staffs in the country, it's just too easy to cherry-pick the best players and modify the instrumentation than to develop a french horn voice. Why go through the hassle of developing a french horn section when you can peel off a couple of trumpet players and put an alto horn in their hands? I don't think current drill design is a reason they're gone. Honestly, I don't think the 07 BD horn book was any more difficult than the 79-80 books. The combination of current movement demands, combined with the overall demand of the horn book, probably equals and slightly exceeds that which we dealt with. Remember, shows are about 12% shorter than they were in the 70s and 80s. Top to bottom talent, consistency and performance level is certainly greater. The biggest difference with modern shows resides with the percussion sections (movement demands, more intricate drill) and color guard (spatial requirements, physical demands). Horns have really gotten off easy, when all is considered. Well, I'm getting off the soapbox. My sincere apologies for the voluminous post. I'll STFU now. :ramd: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrainWreck Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 One point of clarification; r.e. Blue Devils and mellophones. The 81 Blue Devils used mellophones for a portion of the show during 1st tour then abandoned them for the 8 flugle 6 french horn mix that Blue Devils used up until 86. The 84 Blue Devil alto line used 4 mellophones, but those never saw the competition field, only camps. La Fiesta with 4 mellophones, 6 french horns, and 4 flugles was too much for the sopranos to overcome :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDCorno Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 <<La Fiesta with 4 mellophones, 6 french horns, and 4 flugles was too much for the sopranos to overcome :)>> Heh heh heh. With apologies to Texas, "don't mess with middle horns". :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDCorno Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 One point of clarification; r.e. Blue Devils and mellophones.The 81 Blue Devils used mellophones for a portion of the show during 1st tour then abandoned them for the 8 flugle 6 french horn mix that Blue Devils used up until 86. The 84 Blue Devil alto line used 4 mellophones, but those never saw the competition field, only camps. La Fiesta with 4 mellophones, 6 french horns, and 4 flugles was too much for the sopranos to overcome :) How did you get a picture of the food coordinator for the 1982 VK? Lemme know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randomnoise Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Well said, Dave. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
84BDsop Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 The 84 Blue Devil alto line used 4 mellophones, but those never saw the competition field, only camps. La Fiesta with 4 mellophones, 6 french horns, and 4 flugles was too much for the sopranos to overcome :) I don't remember mellos at ALL in 84...and I moved up in January...if they WERE tried out, it was before then. Do I know you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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