DCI "Places ESPN2 Broadcoast on Hiatus"

[Tom Brace]

One more time, for Tom's benefit:

I am quoting him correctly. If you still disagree, feel free to bring this post up and click the "quote" button yourself.

Donny Allen also said this...I don't know how to do the cool quotey thing.

The old bugles were beat up badly and of various manufacturers. Many of them had problems and we couldnt get parts on tour. Some brass repair people began saying that werent going to work on them anymore because of they were in the poorest condition you could possibly imagine. If we lost a slide or valve part on tour, we went days with those particular students not being able to play in shows. That is the kind of thing that we faced last summer as the only G brass line on the Div. 1 tour. Even the mobile brass shop people didnt have any parts for these dinosaurs. What do you say to the kids that had to deal with this scenario? Sorry you cant play for a few days, because the horns we have, nobody wants to work on them anymore? I had to deal with this more than once on tour. Duct tape and various rigging devices were used to get these kids' instruments to at least be playable for a few hours. We had to order parts and then usually there were none to fit these monsters, and if there were, it took weeks to come. Paul Collins actually took a slide from a different manufacturer and heated and bent it to fit a horn because I was pleading with him for a few days. This was a very strong player that couldn't participate with the equipment available to him. Of course the horn was way out of tune on certain notes, but at least the kid got to play with certain valve combinations. He finished the seasoon on that horn unfortunately. No parts ever showed up from anywhere. LOL

From this, I believe that Donny supports my argument.

[Tom Brace]

Because that's what the judges score highest. And why is that?

Because the people who vote for these "options" are also the people who tell the judges how to judge the activity and what to score highest. So, if a majority of directors vote for any key horns because they want to us band instruments, they are going to tell the judges that the sound quality is to be judged more positively. If the directors vote to amp the pits, they will tell the judges that amped pits are to be considered better balanced.

Perhaps there should be some separation from those who make the rules and those who propose the changes. But, that's what DCI is all about, allowing corps to make the changes and the rules so they can benefit from the changes they want.

Sounds like if we got rid of judging all our problems would go away.

[Tom Brace]

These were not just "local little shows." I'm sure others can list larger ones that have also fallen by the wayside. The cumulative effect will impact overall attendance over the entire summer. I'm amazed that you would even contest that essential fact.

And, as audiodb has pointed out, your finals attendance figure is inaccurate. The exact figure for paid attendance, citing DCI's own figure, was 24,309: 2007 Drum Corps International audience milestones

I sit corrected. When was the last time finals attendance was this high or higher.

[DrumCorpsFan27]

Donny Allen also said this...I don't know how to do the cool quotey thing.

The old bugles were beat up badly and of various manufacturers. Many of them had problems and we couldnt get parts on tour. Some brass repair people began saying that werent going to work on them anymore because of they were in the poorest condition you could possibly imagine. If we lost a slide or valve part on tour, we went days with those particular students not being able to play in shows. That is the kind of thing that we faced last summer as the only G brass line on the Div. 1 tour. Even the mobile brass shop people didnt have any parts for these dinosaurs. What do you say to the kids that had to deal with this scenario? Sorry you cant play for a few days, because the horns we have, nobody wants to work on them anymore? I had to deal with this more than once on tour. Duct tape and various rigging devices were used to get these kids' instruments to at least be playable for a few hours. We had to order parts and then usually there were none to fit these monsters, and if there were, it took weeks to come. Paul Collins actually took a slide from a different manufacturer and heated and bent it to fit a horn because I was pleading with him for a few days. This was a very strong player that couldn't participate with the equipment available to him. Of course the horn was way out of tune on certain notes, but at least the kid got to play with certain valve combinations. He finished the seasoon on that horn unfortunately. No parts ever showed up from anywhere. LOL

From this, I believe that Donny supports my argument.

I guess he said BOTH the quality of the horns and the key of the horns each hurt the corps significantly.

[DrumCorpsFan27]

Sounds like if we got rid of judging all our problems would go away.

Nah, like it or not, the competitive aspect is a big draw for drum corps. I just believe that if drum corps followed the Scott Stewart vision rather than the George Hopkins vision, or at least used elements of both, DCI would be in a better position than it is today.

Edited November 20, 2007 by DrumCorpsFan27

[DrumCorpsFan27]

I sit corrected. When was the last time finals attendance was this high or higher.

Early to mid 1980s.

[Michael Boo]

So the video of the top-3 corps shows for the entirety of DCI is "horrendous"? I would think adding 100+ shows online would be at least a little better than "horrendous"...

It's based on the sliding scale established by Starbucks when medium and large became grande and vente.

The old "bad" is now "apocalyptic."

[liebot]

I can't say if it is "sudden" or not (I suspect "not")....but it is policy in DCI world-class, as judges freely state in critiques now.

And they were told that they would continue to place last, regardless of future performance quality, unless they switched to the formerly-"optional" equipment.

I don't believe that.

You're telling me if they put out a hornline the quality of say, Star 1993 they would still be last in brass?

I'm not saying that judges don't prefer Bb horns. All I'm suggesting is that if BD decided to march Gs next year I'm pretty sure they wouldn't end up last in brass.

I mean, come on, Pioneer was pretty much last across the board this year. Not to point fingers, but it seems like the key of the horns is a rather convenient out when it comes to brass scores. I don't care what the judges have said, you'll have a hard time convincing me that Pioneer would've done any better this year if they were on Bbs.

[Eddie]

More than in a few critiques post contest, I was told that until Pioneer made the move to Bb/F, we would "come in last place in brass. The judging community does not want to hear that sound anymore".

I know this isn't your quote, but I just don't buy this. Division I World Class judges come over to Japan every year to judge Drum Corps Japan and other events voluntarily (to my understanding... though they do get paid as well... I think). Drum Corps in Japan is strictly G bugles only, yet they still judge them. Yokohama Scouts (as a division 3 corps) would have been second in brass at Pasadena, and Spartans were also 2nd in brass... both corps using G bugles. I know I'm not talking about the world class here, but these judges all come from the same place.

If they did tell this to Pioneer staff, then they should be fired.

[Tony Flores]

You know for the 1st time in a very, very long time...DCI will not be on National TV anywhere, unless DCI has something up their sleeve.

Who here, who cannot make it to Indy in August of '08 would be willing to plop down the price of a "Super Premium" Ticket to watch finals live on PPV? Not to mention that you would have more of the awesom Tom Blair camera angles to see the action. You figure 125-150 per house hold time how many...minus broadcast fees etc and Ill bet that money can be made off of this.