Starting at Zero ?

[BX5CM]

DING,DING,DING !!!!!!!!!!!!

That is my point exactly. Shouldn't corps be judged against the sheet and not other corps. To be judged against other corps allows for their ranking to be influenced by the judges personal likes or dislikes. Judging against the sheet will still give a ranking.

Bill, I think you are operating from several misconceptions:

First of all, "build-up" doesn't necessarily mean starting with a zero score. Saying a corps "starts at zero" is just a way of simplifying what really goes on to contrast it against the tick system, which starts with a perfect score.

Secondly, this is how judges make their decisions... I think it's a little different than you think...

On the back of every DCI score sheet you will find five boxes in a row from left to right. (Box 1 thru Box 5) Each box has a range of score numbers in it. While watching a performance, each judge must look at their sheets and decide what score range each corps belongs in. Each judge decides what box the corps belongs in based on the language in each box on the back of their respective sheets. If the corps meets or exceeds the criteria but doesn't meet the criteria in the next box up, they should be scored in the upper part of that box. Converseley, if they don't meet all the criteria in the box, but they exceed every criteria in the next lower box, then they should be in the lower part of the box.

Where comparing corps-to-corps comes in is where that corps is ranked WITHIN that box... for example: Corps "A" comes out and meets much of the criteria in box 4, so they are scored in the middle of box 4, then corps "B" comes out and also meets much of the criteria in box 4, but... they meet the criteria just a little bit more based on the commentary the judge is giving, so they are scored a few tenths above corps "A" while still remaining in box 4.

So every number tells us two things: It shows us how much of the established criteria each corps is meeting, and where they relate to the other corps at that competition. Judges must be VERY accountable for comparing corps with evidence on the tapes and sheets that SAY why they put down the number that they did. The corps are judged on their own merits first, and then compared side-by-side to every other corps in the class. It's very objective, and yet, very much subjective at the same time as each judge has different experiences in the activity. However, the judges have supposedly been trained to recognize skills and merit in very much the same way. Judges must be very careful to leave space in the boxes, especially during the first few corps at a competition in case there are corps that come later whose scores must fall in between other corps that have already performed.

When you see spreads in each subcaption, that means something too... typically 1 or 2 tenths difference means the corps are basically comparable and could flip-flop positions on any given night... 3-4 tenths means the corps have minor differences, 5 tenths or more usually means the two corps have signifigant differences in either performer or written book, depending on the subcaption you're looking at.

So you see, what a judge "likes" isn't really a consideration, the corps are ranked against themselves AND each other based on the criteria they set up on the sheets for themselves. I'm not sure where this idea comes from where judges are somehow creating their own criteria... they're not... the instructors write the sheets.

Edited February 11, 2008 by BX5CM

[stoods59]

I thought I would bring this back up sence there are many who have already got all the corps sloted. It still seems odd to me we really know who will be hot and who will not .

Bill

You are correct Bill, it is way too early to have any idea how a corps will do this summer.

[Top Cat]

Good description Box5.

This still fits with the technique of Impression (which box was the performance), Analysis (where in the box best fits to the criteria) and Comparison (where does this score fit to the other units, past experiences and by what spread).

[euponitone]

Bill, I think you are operating from several misconceptions:

First of all, "build-up" doesn't necessarily mean starting with a zero score. Saying a corps "starts at zero" is just a way of simplifying what really goes on to contrast it against the tick system, which starts with a perfect score.

Secondly, this is how judges make their decisions... I think it's a little different than you think...

On the back of every DCI score sheet you will find five boxes in a row from left to right. (Box 1 thru Box 5) Each box has a range of score numbers in it. While watching a performance, each judge must look at their sheets and decide what score range each corps belongs in. Each judge decides what box the corps belongs in based on the language in each box on the back of their respective sheets. If the corps meets or exceeds the criteria but doesn't meet the criteria in the next box up, they should be scored in the upper part of that box. Converseley, if they don't meet all the criteria in the box, but they exceed every criteria in the next lower box, then they should be in the lower part of the box.

Where comparing corps-to-corps comes in is where that corps is ranked WITHIN that box... for example: Corps "A" comes out and meets much of the criteria in box 4, so they are scored in the middle of box 4, then corps "B" comes out and also meets much of the criteria in box 4, but... they meet the criteria just a little bit more based on the commentary the judge is giving, so they are scored a few tenths above corps "A" while still remaining in box 4.

So every number tells us two things: It shows us how much of the established criteria each corps is meeting, and where they relate to the other corps at that competition. Judges must be VERY accountable for comparing corps with evidence on the tapes and sheets that SAY why they put down the number that they did. The corps are judged on their own merits first, and then compared side-by-side to every other corps in the class. It's very objective, and yet, very much subjective at the same time as each judge has different experiences in the activity. However, the judges have supposedly been trained to recognize skills and merit in very much the same way. Judges must be very careful to leave space in the boxes, especially during the first few corps at a competition in case there are corps that come later whose scores must fall in between other corps that have already performed.

When you see spreads in each subcaption, that means something too... typically 1 or 2 tenths difference means the corps are basically comparable and could flip-flop positions on any given night... 3-4 tenths means the corps have minor differences, 5 tenths or more usually means the two corps have signifigant differences in either performer or written book, depending on the subcaption you're looking at.

So you see, what a judge "likes" isn't really a consideration, the corps are ranked against themselves AND each other based on the criteria they set up on the sheets for themselves. I'm not sure where this idea comes from where judges are somehow creating their own criteria... they're not... the instructors write the sheets.

I was going to be clever and call this a box 5 post, then I saw your name, and Im afraid i just cant stoop to that level of pun-dom

[BX5CM]

I was going to be clever and call this a box 5 post, then I saw your name, and Im afraid i just cant stoop to that level of pun-dom

Ha ha ha thanks guys. As you might have guessed, I have had some experience judging, not drum corps, I've done marching band and indoor, but most marching band judges are trained in the same way as DCI. It's a tough tough job to be accountable for ranking and rating something that people have poured their life blood into. It's taken VERY seriously and usually judges that dont' do the job weed themselves out after being screamed at by one too many instructors. If not, they are usually either asked to leave or are placed at shows where they will have very little impact. It's not a perfect system, but I sure couldn't think of a better one at this point.