Lip Trills

[Martybucs]

I think most people here have been playing for quite awhile and even given the varying degrees of ability, most would readily recognize the difference between a lip trill and a shake and their relative application.

[Drew Wilkie]

Very true, Marty. My post was in regards to technique and the specific differences between the two.

[CorpsBuff]

A good way to differentiate between a lip trill, and a shake-

A lip trill is done with the tongue and the lips, working together. Motion of the horn (hand) isn't used to create the trill. With the exception of the upper register (where partials are much closer together, and can be played with many alternate fingerings), lip trills happen in the stave. They occur between notes of the same harmonic structure (fingering). Within the structure, most lip trills occur at major or minor third intervals (C to E, E to G, C# to E, B to D#, etc). Listen to baroque or natural trumpet players...in most recordings, there are pristine examples of true lip trills. Lip trills are inherently more elegant than shakes.

Conversely, a shake is done in conjunction with horn (hand) motion, and the tongue and lips. The horn is rocked back and forth with the hand, while the lips and tongue work like a lip trill. It usually occurs at a much wider and undefined interval, can be executed at any speed, and is something that is used in the commercial/jazz idiom...the dirtier the better. You won't find a shake in Mahler or Beethoven.

"But Drew, these aren't the only ways for each to be executed!!"

While that is definitely true, these are the ways that produce the most "characteristic" sound, in my humble opinion.

Good points Drew, hope to march with you at some point this year.

[Jeff DeMello]

Fine.

was the cooler next to the chair full?

The cooler next to Ponzo is NEVER full!

[Martybucs]

I asked the 5 trumpets in our jazz band to execute a lip trill in the upper register and in the middle register and the low register. Any not of their choice.

To be sure, there is some undulation of the tongue, some obvious changes in the lips, but everyone used jaw motion when lip trilling. It was way more pronounced in the lower register.

Curious thing is, the initial jaw motion is much more exaggerated at the start of the trill, (to get it going perhaps), than sustaining the trill.

Perhaps it is not the recommended method, but a lot of people use it and it works extremely well.

Lip trills, once you get the hang of them, are actually very easy compared to certain valve trills.

[Drew Wilkie]

Very true.

The jaw, and specifically the space of the oral cavity, plays a crucial role in maintaining control of every register. Generally, a smaller oral cavity makes the upper register more attainable, whereas a larger oral cavity makes the lower register more clear.

[Martybucs]

Very true.

The jaw, and specifically the space of the oral cavity, plays a crucial role in maintaining control of every register. Generally, a smaller oral cavity makes the upper register more attainable, whereas a larger oral cavity makes the lower register more clear.

This is true.

Also, one cannot ignore the role resistence provides in the production of tone and the relative ease or difficulty in lip trills and other playing situations.

This is a variable which differs from player to player. Some prefer a very open set up, some a very tight set up and some prefer a combination of the two as supplied by either the mouthpiece or horn, as well as embouchure set up. It's a balancing act that if one is willing to pursue can yield very positive results. Not the answer to all your problems, but certainly finding the proper tool for YOU for what you are trying to achieve is a worthwhile search in itself.

I mention this because some people feel that if you simply do what they do you'll be successful. While you may succeed, you may also fail and not be encouraged to find something that works for you. Always keep an open mind and be willing to experiment.

Just think of how many wonderful players we wouldn't have, if everyone followed the advice of some teachers to play exactly the way they do and use exactly the same equipment as they do.

In the meantime, practice is the best bet.

[jdostie]

This is true.

Also, one cannot ignore the role resistence provides in the production of tone and the relative ease or difficulty in lip trills and other playing situations.

This is a variable which differs from player to player. Some prefer a very open set up, some a very tight set up and some prefer a combination of the two as supplied by either the mouthpiece or horn, as well as embouchure set up. It's a balancing act that if one is willing to pursue can yield very positive results. Not the answer to all your problems, but certainly finding the proper tool for YOU for what you are trying to achieve is a worthwhile search in itself.

I mention this because some people feel that if you simply do what they do you'll be successful. While you may succeed, you may also fail and not be encouraged to find something that works for you. Always keep an open mind and be willing to experiment.

Just think of how many wonderful players we wouldn't have, if everyone followed the advice of some teachers to play exactly the way they do and use exactly the same equipment as they do.

In the meantime, practice is the best bet.

During my last year marching we had one trill written into our music - during a section where we were doing something in the drill that I can't remember, but I remember thinking how am I supposed to trill here? I don't think any of us even bothered trying - even once. I can't imagine executing a trill with any kind of real movement other than a kind of shuffle of the feet. Too much going on, and at least the way we used to march, it'd be real easy to lose the seal altogether. Maybe with more practice I'd have become more comfortable with the idea? Or is this something best left for solo/concert pieces?

[Martybucs]

During my last year marching we had one trill written into our music - during a section where we were doing something in the drill that I can't remember, but I remember thinking how am I supposed to trill here? I don't think any of us even bothered trying - even once. I can't imagine executing a trill with any kind of real movement other than a kind of shuffle of the feet. Too much going on, and at least the way we used to march, it'd be real easy to lose the seal altogether. Maybe with more practice I'd have become more comfortable with the idea? Or is this something best left for solo/concert pieces?

Have to admit, in marching situations, lip trills are rare, but I've played my share while marching. We've played Stevie Wonder, E,W,&F, Chuck Mangione, etc songs that all required lip trills while marching. It is a very worthwhile tool to have in your tool box.

If you've spent a certain amount of time, exhaustively trying to obtain a lip trill, without success, then try another method. A lip trill, in my opinion, seems to be more a succession of controlled, "cracked" notes, so to speak.

You can get by without one, but you won't regret learning how to do it. Lip trills are very common in jazz, but also in show tunes. Playing in a pit orchestra can be great fun and I guarantee you'll need lip trills in Broadway musicals.

I played in a pit orchestra about 20 years ago for a local production of the, "Pajama Game". Great music! The show got panned by the critics in the local newspapers, but two of them mentioned that the trumpet player was worth hearing. I was real proud of that, but then the cast hated me.

Point is, you're embarking on something that can provide you with great enjoyment and personal fulfillment. Anything you can do to improve your playing is worthwhile as long as you're having some fun, or at least if the end result can yield the same. Soon, you won't be limited to drum corps or concert band.

Lots of great advice on here, give it all a fair try and maybe you'll even come up with your own ideas that work.

Always try to enjoy yourself. That's why they call it playing.