Does anyone really care about Open Class?

[wishbonecav]

D2 used to be limited tour corps. And there were 25 or so, not all making the DCI trip. They performed in local circuits (E-Mass, ODCA, DCE, Northwest, DCM, DCNY, etc), went to regional championships (including some DCI shows, the US Open, etc) and some went to DCI to duke it out for the title...if they could afford it.

But the mothe to a flame mentality took hold and a bunch of the D2's "graduated" into D1...

....and then away they flew...

Florida Wave, Diplomats, Canadian Knights, NY Lancers, Marauders, Northern Aurora, Railmen, Chatelaines (Connexion), Kavaliers, Spartans (WA), Sancians, L'Insolite, Black Gold, Cardinals (see Kavaliers), Ventures (see Kavaliers), Thunder (see Kavaliers), Limited Edition, Academie Musicale, Southwind, Cascades, Dimension, Les Etoiles, Emerald Knights, Tarheel Sun, Patriots, Capital Regiment, Esperanza.

All gone. It's tough to have a show anyone will "care about" if there's no corps to participate in it. Well, there's 6. Wonder if they could put together a tour of 2 corps from CA, 2 from NJ, one from MA, one from FL. Let's start it in North Carolina and see if everyone can go broke by Finals.

If the D2 corps were allowed their limited tour model with local emphasis, like they had in the 80's and 90's, they may have had a shot. And a championship among these groups should have been given credence and value, rather than second-class status.

There were 40 and 50 person hornlines in D2 putting out sound and entertainment value (L'Insolite, Tarheel Sun)

There was unique training in D2 (Musicale, Ventures) that was treated as more of a curiosity than with reverance or respect by the D1 contingent.

There was enthusiasm and depth in D2 that won appreciation from big crowds (Buffalo '90...first booing, then chanting "Railmen!Railmen!Railmen!" when the corps was announced in 5th).

If we as a community had the foresight that John Nolan or Pepe Notaro had, we'd have something left to talk about.

But we have this thread instead: Maybe we don't "really care" about Open class anymore b/c there's not much left to care about. What a shame.

[Stellathediningdiva]

If the Open Class were to disappear off of the face of the earth, would anyone other than the marching members notice? Every year, I read many threads here and elsewhere about the lack of support these corps get from DCI, etc., but it seems to me that no one shows up for their shows and even their Finals don't have large crowds. It seems to me that this has less to do with DCI and more to do with a lack of support (respect?) on the the part of drum corps fans. Even at so-called "mixed" shows here in the once small corps-friendly midwest, many of those considering themselves to be "big time" fans of drum corps don't show up in the stands until intermission.

Reminds me of when Home Depot came into my town and the small hardware store on Main Street closed up and went out of business. My neighbors all whined about "Big Bad Home Depot," but none of them shopped at the old store anyway. "It was too inconvenient," they said.

OOOh, OOOh, I do, I do!! Pick me , pick me!!

I LOVE open class!!!!

Come to the Legends Drum Corps Preview in Vicksburg, MI on July 31 and see open class corps throw down!!!!

[Eddie]

I care (In my young Luke Skywalker voice.... $1 by the way to the lad)

[Gary Matczak]

D2 used to be limited tour corps. And there were 25 or so, not all making the DCI trip. They performed in local circuits (E-Mass, ODCA, DCE, Northwest, DCM, DCNY, etc), went to regional championships (including some DCI shows, the US Open, etc) and some went to DCI to duke it out for the title...if they could afford it.

But the mothe to a flame mentality took hold and a bunch of the D2's "graduated" into D1...

....and then away they flew...

Florida Wave, Diplomats, Canadian Knights, NY Lancers, Marauders, Northern Aurora, Railmen, Chatelaines (Connexion), Kavaliers, Spartans (WA), Sancians, L'Insolite, Black Gold, Cardinals (see Kavaliers), Ventures (see Kavaliers), Thunder (see Kavaliers), Limited Edition, Academie Musicale, Southwind, Cascades, Dimension, Les Etoiles, Emerald Knights, Tarheel Sun, Patriots, Capital Regiment, Esperanza.

All gone. It's tough to have a show anyone will "care about" if there's no corps to participate in it. Well, there's 6. Wonder if they could put together a tour of 2 corps from CA, 2 from NJ, one from MA, one from FL. Let's start it in North Carolina and see if everyone can go broke by Finals.

If the D2 corps were allowed their limited tour model with local emphasis, like they had in the 80's and 90's, they may have had a shot. And a championship among these groups should have been given credence and value, rather than second-class status.

There were 40 and 50 person hornlines in D2 putting out sound and entertainment value (L'Insolite, Tarheel Sun)

There was unique training in D2 (Musicale, Ventures) that was treated as more of a curiosity than with reverance or respect by the D1 contingent.

There was enthusiasm and depth in D2 that won appreciation from big crowds (Buffalo '90...first booing, then chanting "Railmen!Railmen!Railmen!" when the corps was announced in 5th).

If we as a community had the foresight that John Nolan or Pepe Notaro had, we'd have something left to talk about.

But we have this thread instead: Maybe we don't "really care" about Open class anymore b/c there's not much left to care about. What a shame.

it is unfortunate,.........

Edited June 18, 2008 by Gary Matczak

[EndzoneEric]

If we as a community had the foresight that John Nolan or Pepe Notaro had, we'd have something left to talk about.

But we have this thread instead: Maybe we don't "really care" about Open class anymore b/c there's not much left to care about. What a shame.

I don't disagree with you that these days are quite obviously not the "glory days" of abundance. I am wondering, however, how we can contribute to the future success of these corps. They're not all gone, yet. I just don't want to see that "Home Depot" mentality. We'll all complain when Open Class is gone, but we won't have done anything to substantially support them.

[audiodb]

My reason for posting was not at all intended to diminish the efforts of those on the field. Quite the contrary. Perhaps I should have said, "other than the performers on the field and their families, does anyone really care about the Open Class?"

(raises hand)

[jonz311]

I don't disagree with you that these days are quite obviously not the "glory days" of abundance. I am wondering, however, how we can contribute to the future success of these corps. They're not all gone, yet. I just don't want to see that "Home Depot" mentality. We'll all complain when Open Class is gone, but we won't have done anything to substantially support them.

the problem is....these days there is a lot of pressure for the successful what we now call Open Class corps to "move up" to world class status. Pioneer, Southwind, Esperanza, Magic, Tarheel, Mandarins, Capital Regiment, Cascades, Pacific Crest, Kiwanis Kavaliers, Blue Stars, Academy were all at one time succesful Open Class corps that moved up. A lot of this movement happened after the rule was passed that if you wanted to perform in quarterfinals, you needed to declare yourself World Class. Several of these groups had been successful in Quarters, so the move made sense, but the financial impact was too much. Look at how many of those corps are no longer in existance after only a few short years in Div I.

I really think that if Open Class is to survive and thrive, DCI needs to use the classification similar to what WGI does and classify based on skill set. I think we can all agree that there are several groups that are "world class" when they truly aren't a world class skill set. Tour schedules and size should bear no weight on classification. Only then do i think there will be growth in Open Class. Groups can be reviewed throughout the season and "bumped" to world if they meet the requirements for the next level.

Just look at how many new independent groups keep popping up on the WGI Percussion side of things. Every year there are several new groups at championships!

Put open class finals in the big stadium the night before quarters and they might have a hit!

[Gary Matczak]

the problem is....these days there is a lot of pressure for the successful what we now call Open Class corps to "move up" to world class status. Pioneer, Southwind, Esperanza, Magic, Tarheel, Mandarins, Capital Regiment, Cascades, Pacific Crest, Kiwanis Kavaliers, Blue Stars, Academy were all at one time succesful Open Class corps that moved up. A lot of this movement happened after the rule was passed that if you wanted to perform in quarterfinals, you needed to declare yourself World Class. Several of these groups had been successful in Quarters, so the move made sense, but the financial impact was too much. Look at how many of those corps are no longer in existance after only a few short years in Div I.

I really think that if Open Class is to survive and thrive, DCI needs to use the classification similar to what WGI does and classify based on skill set. I think we can all agree that there are several groups that are "world class" when they truly aren't a world class skill set. Tour schedules and size should bear no weight on classification. Only then do i think there will be growth in Open Class. Groups can be reviewed throughout the season and "bumped" to world if they meet the requirements for the next level.

Just look at how many new independent groups keep popping up on the WGI Percussion side of things. Every year there are several new groups at championships!

Put open class finals in the big stadium the night before quarters and they might have a hit!

Excellent Post!.............but I say, let the open class finals roll right into quarters, same day and panel, and see what happens!,....................that would be interesting to watch

[Liam]

the problem is....these days there is a lot of pressure for the successful what we now call Open Class corps to "move up" to world class status. Pioneer, Southwind, Esperanza, Magic, Tarheel, Mandarins, Capital Regiment, Cascades, Pacific Crest, Kiwanis Kavaliers, Blue Stars, Academy were all at one time succesful Open Class corps that moved up. A lot of this movement happened after the rule was passed that if you wanted to perform in quarterfinals, you needed to declare yourself World Class. Several of these groups had been successful in Quarters, so the move made sense, but the financial impact was too much. Look at how many of those corps are no longer in existance after only a few short years in Div I.

Why do you think there is this pressure to move up? One reason may be that because existing D1 (WC) corps are folding or going on hiatus, there is a strong incentive to replace them. There is a financial incentive to maintain WC Quarters and if there are no more than 17-19 corps, this loses it importance. After all, D1 is the bread-and-butter of DCI, so they will do whatever they have to maintain its stature. The whole thing is set up to value Div1 at the expense of Div2/3 -- tours are designed with Div1 in mind -- championship locations likewise -- so Div2/3s are faced with a dilema -- try to improve yourself with better equipment, better staff, etc, and you're forced into a Div1 path because there just isn't enough sustainable money on the Div2 tour. Or stay within the Div2/3 available budget and face a lifetime of (relative) mediocrity. Honestly, the latter seems to me a better choice because it better ensures longer term experiences for the kids, which is ultimately what we're all about. But even then, the Div2/3 tour participants can get dwindled and nickel-and-dimed to death over time.

My idea is to eliminate the divisions based on corps size or other rules differences and instead seperate corps by tour choice (local, regional, or national) with all having a chance to compete against the big boys at Nationals if they so choose. Each "regular season" show would have a mix of national corps, regional corps and local corps as best as possible. So local corps might face each other a lot and maybe see the regional corps a little less and National corps even more infrequently, but a healthy mix can be attained. This, I think, will also raise the cache of the Regional Championships and create a more localized following for some of these smaller corps. Each Regional would have an overall champion, but also a "Regional corps" winner recognition and a "Local corps" winner recognition. So these mini-championships will give all the corps a chance to perform in front of the same audience to show their stuff and make new fans (I would also advocate random performace order for the prelims at all Regionals and Nationals). This way the few that move "up" to a National touring schedule don't really affect any other corps because their all performing at the same kind of shows, anyway.

Honestly, this isn't that different from how BOA operates. Local shows with the local high schools and maybe one or two "travelling" schools. Regionals that attract many local and national schools -- with Prelims in random order, I might add. And Nationals with fewer smaller/local schools and a lot of big boys from around the country (again, random prelim order -- I think now even random finals order, but prelim order has always been random even before that change). The Regionals and Nationals recognize a Grand Champion, but also a Class A and AA (or whatever they're called now -- I'm not really current on what's happening over there!). If DCI wants to attract the high school band members/fans for future growth, I suggest they look more at the structure side of things and less at the on-field side of things. The latter means nothing without the former, imo, and I think the latter would also seem not so "necessary" if the former were implemented.

Edited June 18, 2008 by Liam

[jonz311]

There is a financial incentive to maintain WC Quarters and if there are no more than 17-19 corps, this loses it importance.

So then let the top 5 open class compete in quarters just like they did in the old days. A corps should not have to take on the added financial implications just so DCI can justify having quarterfinals.