Dissension in today's ranks.

[jdostie]

If there were a movie similar to, "Who Killed the Electric Car", made about the death of drum and BUGLE corps, then DCI would surely be the focus.

There were many reasons for the demise of neighborhood corps and circuits, but the actual guiding force in all of it was the agenda of DCI which made the environment unfriendly to all but the favored corps that could come up with the cash. Sort of like a successful church. (God needs a lot of cash $1.00 to George Carlin RIP)

The deed is done. It's over. What's left is DCI and they call it drum corps. That's the way it has to be because they're in charge, (even though everyone is free to follow their own course)

It happened so slowly that people see it as evolution, but that's BS. It was not evolution. It was and is, merely a CHANGE, into bands.

So be it. They put on a great show, none the less.

Now that is my opinion. It does not detract from the drum corps that exist today in DCI or DCA. It's interesting to discuss these topics and state opinions either way, however, if that's all you do and don't accept what's on the field today, whatever you choose to name it, the loss is yours.

We ain't going back, people. Chill and enjoy. That's all the performers of today want, enjoy their show and applaud, but don't boo. No one's hard fought efforts deserve that.

So I attended DCI West this year; my first show since 1979.

Even after lurking around here for a while, I didn't know what I was looking at in several ways. First, let me say that I enjoyed it, but at the same time, it was , well an eye-opener.

1. The corps did not start at any specific point, starting line or whatever, they kind of marched to the edge of the field, and then meandered to a starting spot. No military bearing; I even think I saw some members chatting (can't be sure from the stands), but there was certainly nothing like "attention" at that stage of the game.

2. Color guards - I think every single color guard uniformed looked EXTREMELY different than the corps uniform - there is a place for that, but every single one . . . I would tend to think a rifle line specifically would want to have uniforms the same as/similar to the corps . . but then, there did not seem to be a rifle line, just switching to and from rifles.

3. I guess in 1979 we had something of a pit - I think we marched on the field with the equipment, but we did ground some equipment (tympani and possibly marimba) . . . I don't remember the details, but the size/scope of the pit was far greater than what I had expected.

4. I am not sure of there is a shift from precision to jazzy showmanship, we had what I would have called "jazzy showmanship" back in the day, but that was usually the soloists or whatever, the scale of this was farther reaching - the whole drum line etc . . . the question of precision might be chalked up to the very comment I made to my daugher BEFORE the show - which was that the corps would not be at their best yet, they still had a month and a half roughly to work on their shows.

5. Corps would march right past the sidelines.

6. I didn't recognize a single tune - except when Blue Devils C was on the field - then I recognized all of them.

7. Dropped equipment getting picked up- even if that meant dropping out of your position on the field, then running back to your position.

8. PHANTOM'S SHOW WAS AWESOME.

9. Blue Devils were perhaps the best executed show on the field, but it was not at all what I think of as Blue Devils - stylistically, but then either was Vanguard.

10. Other than the announcer I did not "notice" any amplification/electronics etc with any show.

I am not a fan of allowing voice on the field - Despite the fact that I appreciated Garfield singing "AMEN" at the end of their show back in the day . . .

That said, it worked with "I AM SPARTACUS."

All in all, I prefer the more "old school" drum corps show, but that did not stop me from enjoying the show I was there to watch.

I wouldn't mind seeing two different classifications of shows - though I guess they could not compete head to head.

So it's very very different from the shows of the late '70's.

[apoch003]

Excuses... hmnn...what were DCI's excuses?

The switch from 2 to three valve was so that a horn player could play a "D" below the scale. One note, and all of drum corps changed (I do not count piston/rotor change because that DOES seem like good evolution and it made no difference in sound).

The switch from G to Bb was so that any band kid could come into a rehearsal and play the horn. Although how it's more difficult to play a LOWER based instrument is beyond me.

Also, the manufacturers were already primarily making Bb horns. Thus, it was supposed to be cheaper (But now we know it wasn't at all).

The switch to the pit from marching kettle drums and bells was a huge relief for those poor back broken kids. Also, Allowing the pit in and of itself created the ability to introduce different malleted instruments and new percussion choices.

The switch from guard to dancers was due to a way of promoting a shows "theme" better. By using artistic dance.

The cymbal line was removed because everyone thought the pit couldn't be heard. No really!

Amplification of the pit negated having cymbals on the field, because now the pit could play the cymbals. The coolest kids marching, with flashy maneauvers and over the top performances are now gone. ...with a few exceptions.

The biggest switch was marching styles and techniques. Although it was pretty cool at the time of the change... it shouldn't have been so drastic. The Judging system changed... and it's pretty messed up still (if you ask me). Every corps started with 100 points, and every error was a tenth of a point off that score. This created a Blue Devils that was so precise and skilled, that judges thought they'd better change the system (oh no! They're too perfect! what shall we do? I know! Let's not judge on error anymore! That'll mess it up!).

Moving from the "tick" system, all of drum corps changed when Garfield came out with low marc time, and asymmetrical field design. Although impressive, it was still highly skilled.

As the judging system began to be taken advantage of, posieurs fresh out of college suddenly thought they could write the music corps play, instead of basing a show on a theme (the 80's) or playing a show to a set type of events (opener, fanfair, concert, drum solo, closer: the 70's). The current effect of this new way of presenting allows corps to play to the judges, instead of the audience which paid to see them. A few eighth notes here, a big punch there, and let's set the mood of the show. Mostly, this is just confusing to the audience (Cadets planting a girl in the audience? SHEESH! Or talking all the way through a show to explain what they're doing? BAH!) or downright boring.

Later years prove that corps can all do this style of "marching", which leads to lots of errors (rifle drops, flags not in sync, uneven "straight" lines, etc.) without any consequence. This style in todays corps, although fast paced and action filled, comes across as lazy to me. I see more than one or two mistakes in a show and the corps loses any interest I might have had for them.

So what do we have?

Movement not marching.

Band instruments, not drum corps instruments (I didn't say bugles for all you passive-agressive freaks!)

Amplified cymbals and no cymbal line.

What is certainly more difficult, but looks sloppier M&M and GE.

Horn 'music' which doesn't sound like anything more than a few whole notes with an occasionl punch to the audience.

Is it still drum corps? Everyone says so. And I still go to every show I can. But no, it's music and motion, with style.

I can actually see things on the horizon. Not Hoppy bringing saxes to the field or anything, but more realistic things... Like, boosting the contras with a bass guitar in the pit. Which would result in the contras being eliminated completely.

At some point, the changes HAVE TO STOP. IMO, we're already well beyond the point of no return.

[Puppet]

For one I never called anyone old or stupid, and my comment as far as technology goes was meant in jest, and was never meant to offent or insult anyone. So if I have I apologize. If I really wanted to offend someone I would have actually used the words, old, inept, and stupid. Again if I annoyed someone I sincerly apologize as that wasn't my intent.

As for being close minded, I was refering to people that don't like todays corps, that attend shows, and boo, make poor comments, and generaly nay say what a current corps is trying to accomplish. What makes anyones version of drum corps better than anyone elses? What gives anyone the right old, or new to say that stinks because it's not my era of drum corps? What makes your version so much more valid then anyone elses? And why do people keep expressing their thinly vailed hatred of the current incarnation of drum corps when it's been proven time and time again that the activity dosen't change because fans want it to? I'm really asking, what are we trying to accomplish?

As for me not listing my "credentials" I choose to leave my corps names out of my opinions as they have nothing to do with my opinion, if I offend some one (case and point this tread) I don't need my current or past corps looked at with question because I have a disagreable opinion on one topic or another. Suffice to say I have marced junior and senior corps, been a staff member, and written music for drum corps. I simply choose not to drag their names into my opinions, popular or otherwise. I'm no more "hiding" my affiliation then I am my opinion on drum corps today. I'm pretty sure my corps are on my profile, and if not I would be more then happy to answer any questions about my history through PM. In my little mind my corps history holds little bearing on my opinion.

Dude - I have never, ever heard someone put down a drum corps some other person marched in because of their opinion in this forum. They may rag on the corps because of the corps - if been caught doing it on occasion and I will tell you I have been chastised for it. Now as to the person; I've heard many many opinions on these pages and all I can say to you and yours is please check your spelling.

Puppet

[voodoo sweet]

I still can't really agree with the implied definition of "evolution" you're using here; but not with enough passion to actually make an issue out of it.

And why is that????

[MoonHill]

And why is that????

We hashed it out back on page 4 or 5 of this thread.

[Martybucs]

I still can't really agree with the implied definition of "evolution" you're using here; but not with enough passion to actually make an issue out of it.

Well, when you come home from work, do you "evolve" into another type of clothing or do you just "change" your clothes?

Drum corps merely changed into bands. Look at old movies of marching bands from the forties and fifties and you'll see fast tempos and large moving formations.

Also, it's sort of like the bar down the street that used to be a tap room, but then they update the interior, add some games and a bunch of TVs with a different cable sport on all of them and now they're a sports bar. Did it "evolve" into a sports bar? No, they made a conscious decision to go in that direction.

DCI, long ago, made a conscious decision that they no longer wanted to be drum and bugle corps. They only call it drum corps, to deceive people into thinking that it is still drum corps, hence my opinion of collusion.

That opinion doesn't mean I don't like what they do. I just don't agree with the label or the idea that they "evolved" into what they're doing now.

Edited July 19, 2008 by Martybucs

[MoonHill]

Well, when you come home from work, do you "evolve" into another type of clothing or do you just "change" your clothes?

My outfit does, indeed, evolve.

Also, it's sort of like the bar down the street that used to be a tap room, but then they update the interior, add some games and a bunch of TVs with a different cable sport on all of them and now they're a sports bar. Did it "evolve" into a sports bar? No, they made a conscious decision to go in that direction.

And more likely than not, they did so because they felt that a sports bar would be a more profitable enterprise in the area than a tap room. IOW, the environment exerted a pressure, and the place adapted.

That opinion doesn't mean I don't like what they do. I just don't agree with the label or the idea that they "evolved" into what they're doing now.

And like I said before, evolution is nothing more than change over time, at its basic level. Just seems a silly quibble, to me, to separate out the minds of DCI management from the environment they're a part of.

[Martybucs]

Which is why I said it's " A word seldom heard anymore."

Remember, or should I say you have to know that Back In The Day, most players in drum corps had never picked up a horn, or a pair of drum sticks or read a note of music before they walked in the door of the corps of their choice.

They weren't seasoned band or orchestra members with private teachers and such.

They started from scratch.

11 and 12 year old kids (BTW, we also didn't have all the problems that kids have now like Attention Deficiency) walked in during the winter, probably after making the choice not to join the boy scouts or something - or maybe having seen the corps in a thanksgiving day parade, with absolutely no knowledge and by the next summer they were on the field.

A pretty dandy testament of the time.

I meant no take away from those young men and women playing and romping around the fields today - they work hard and even though most of the snippets of music being played is unrecognizable to even me (although to their credit the Blue Devils' Rite Of Spring and Firebird which IMHO was much better than Phantom's last year were very well played even with the frenzied pace of the drill - SCV also had me for a moment with the Daphnis and Chloé selections it's no wonder why some of the people who still live in the way back machine don't get it. I do. Sorry - I lost track of where I was going.

It's an old guy thing you wouldn't understand.

Anyway I got distracted thinking about that show and how the Cavaliers just floored me with their vapid renditions of Billy Joeldom. How they beat SVC, Phantom and even the Blue Coats will go down in my personal history as one of the World's greatest mysteries. This from a corps that made me an instant fan when I first saw them in 1965 at the VFW Nationals in Chicago indoors no less.

So there - 42 years of Cavalier History in 3 sentences, a quick review of last year's finals in 2 (counting the 1 Cavalier mention, 1 complete halfheimer's moment, an explanation of what I meant in my last post, some background of how it was and last but not least a note to voodo sweet - is that a reference to the CCMC Warriors of the past?

Puppet

OK, I guess I misunderstood your meaning. Old guy thing, eh? I started in 1964 and still march and play to this day. Just got in from practice a little while ago.

That's me in 1967 at 13 years old. Notice the Ludwig G-D soprano with slip slide. Yes, Ludwig made bugles. Edit: I forgot the little do-hickey on top of the bell that I'm holding...that's the octave key!

Edited July 19, 2008 by Martybucs

[lindap]

OK, I guess I misunderstood your meaning. Old guy thing, eh? I started in 1964 and still march and play to this day. Just got in from practice a little while ago.

That's me in 1967 at 13 years old. Notice the Ludwig G-D soprano with slip slide. Yes, Ludwig made bugles. Edit: I forgot the little do-hickey on top of the bell that I'm holding...that's the octave key!

Cool photo. Thanks.

Maybe the topic title could change FROM Dissention in Today’s Ranks, ‘Innovations’ leading to growing discord TO The Descendents of Today’s Ranks, ‘when old meets new’ leading to better understanding. Let me think about that narration thing though…gotta find the words…

[pearlsnaredrummer77]

The fact is that the innovators all want to 'win' the DCI Championship, so their "artistic vision" still conforms to the time limits of a drum corps show. What if a corps felt that their artistic vision would take 25 minutes to perform and who cares about the scores? I think that would be a more honest indicator (and certainly not the only one) of innovation for the pursuit of artistic vision. But that's not the debate we are having.

Another thought is why not musical innovation? Most of the DCI corps of today now sound cookie cutter similar with an emphasis on Western music and the same kinds of delivery based upon various sections "riffing' or soloing at various points. How about a show based upon African, Indian or Arab folk music? That corps could be introducing new music, cultural awareness, and new instrumentation within the drum corps medium.

Cool photo. Thanks.

Maybe the topic title could change FROM Dissention in Today’s Ranks, ‘Innovations’ leading to growing discord TO The Descendents of Today’s Ranks, ‘when old meets new’ leading to better understanding. Let me think about that narration thing though…gotta find the words…